TAC - Tiger/Alpine re-shelling discussion thread.

[Red Race Tiger]

Steven,

This whole STICKY thread has been for the sake of discussing "Re Shelling"

No one on here is questioning the legitimacy of your car because you have changed wings (Fenders? Mudgaurds?) It is still obviously a Tiger.

The point we have been trying to thrash out here is this, The subtly modified Tiger shares the same basic unibody as the Alpine. And therefore as a derivertive of the Alpine it is being debated if it's acceptable OR NOT to use this body to re shell a rotten Tiger.

If as some say they are two completely different bodies? then we must leave well alone and look for parts and panel's elsewhere, Or there are those that see this is complete sillyness and rightly see them both as the same unibody.

Yes i do think that STOC should take charge of this issue as it need's clarifying,
Graham/STOC has been sitting on the fence listening i'm sure, but sooner or later a word from our sponsor should come

[gtsmrt]

There is nothing STICKY about this thread at all and quite frankly it has run its course. You either have an original Alpine or an original Tiger. If you want to re-shell your damaged Tiger with an Alpine, go right ahead no one is stopping you. I don't understand why people are disregarding the Tiger or what makes a Tiger and they are supposed to own one!! There is no need for categories, trying to justify what will never be a true Tiger. I don't blame people for staying clear of this thread.

[gtsmrt]

Meadowhog,

Try this.....

Catagory A, An unmolested original Jenson built Tiger with a known history, light restoration. Matching numbers.
Catagory B An original Jenson built Tiger having undergone part or full restoration, Matching numbers.
Catagory C A complete bodychange (Reshell) from one doner car to another shell (Alpine) carrying over specific laid down identifiers. Minimum matching Vin & Jal

Catagory D, Alpine V8's and other.


Two cars welded together an absolute No No & go straight in the skip

No difference between A & B (both original Tigers), C is just calling out for Alger Alley and no different to D. Back to the drawing board!!

[meadowhog]

Is that beacause your Tiger would be a B? What would the neighbours think.

But seriously

Id still love for you to give some physical description of a reshell and at what point it ceases to be a restoration. If you cant I dont see how you can legitimately argue that there 'isnt' a difference between A and B.

[Red Race Tiger]

So i guess there are those out there that would prefer to line up behind the fred flintston Mk2 with a TAC rather than to open up to the possibility of doing the job correcty.

If i found out that i'd purchased a Tiger that was two cars brazed together and that it had been sanctioned by a so called protector of the breed? I'd sue them for false misrepresentation.

At least if a car's declared as i re-shell i'd have the option to walk away

Not much chance of that once that Mk2's been undersealed and painted is it.

But at least it will have that ALL IMPORTANT TAC certificate that everyone hangs on.

Somewhere up the line someones gonna get seriously caught with that one.

It should have remained cut in half and thown in the skip.

[gtsmrt]

Is that beacause your Tiger would be a B? What would the neighbours think.

But seriously

Id still love for you to give some physical description of a reshell and at what point it ceases to be a restoration. If you cant I dont see how you can legitimately argue that there 'isnt' a difference between A and B.

Who cares!! I know I have a original Tiger, so what if it's restored. You are supposed to have years of panel experience, surely that amounts to something? Let me ask you a question... Is Mal's exquisitely restored Tiger, still a Tiger? I bet you say yes. Sorry to keep using your car as an example Mal.

[gtsmrt]

So i guess there are those out there that would prefer to line up behind the fred flintston Mk2 with a TAC rather than to open up to the possibility of doing the job correcty.

If i found out that i'd purchased a Tiger that was two cars brazed together and that it had been sanctioned by a so called protector of the breed? I'd sue them for false misrepresentation.

At least if a car's declared as i re-shell i'd have the option to walk away

Not much chance of that once that Mk2's been undersealed and painted is it.

But at least it will have that ALL IMPORTANT TAC certificate that everyone hangs on.

Somewhere up the line someones gonna get seriously caught with that one.

It should have remained cut in half and thown in the skip.

Doing what correctly?? Modifying an Alpine with what remains of a damaged Tiger and masquerading it as an original. I find it a bit contradictory when you attack the Mk II (and TAC which the UK isn't even involved in) and think people are opening themselves up to litigation for misrepresentation. What do you think will happen when a re-shell is re-tagged with TigerID's and full disclosure isn't adhered to?

[dude234]

I see the discussion is still going on and the circular arguments on what constitutes a bona-fide, genuine, Rootes built Sunbeam Tiger are still going round and round.

The fact is Rootes Tigers are not simply rebadged Alpines. The Tiger body was ordered and created as a Tiger right from the start and was not, as some may think, an Alpine shell sent over to Jensen to modify. Proof of this is in the fact that Tiger body shells on MK 1 never had the Alpine battery box welded in. On MII the panel behind the seats does not have an opening for the the fuel pump (or Alpine battery box). Obviously, these are not Alpine body shells that Jensen modified. They came directly from the factory and were ordered as such before being sent to Jensen. You can find some other bits that are on Alpines and never put on a Tiger body shell, like the Alpine spare tire mount is never installed on a Tiger.

And no matter how argue the point, if you take an Alpine and add Tiger parts to it what you have created is a Tiger built in your garage or shed, nothing more and nothing less. It was not built by Rootes or Jensen and it is a rebody with a fake/fraudulent provenance if you try to pass it off as a genuine Rootes Sunbeam Tiger.

[gtsmrt]

I see the discussion is still going on and the circular arguments on what constitutes a bona-fide, genuine, Rootes built Sunbeam Tiger are still going round and round.

The fact is Rootes Tigers are not simply rebadged Alpines. The Tiger body was ordered and created as a Tiger right from the start and was not, as some may think, an Alpine shell sent over to Jensen to modify. Proof of this is in the fact that Tiger body shells on MK 1 never had the Alpine battery box welded in. On MII the panel behind the seats does not have an opening for the the fuel pump (or Alpine battery box). Obviously, these are not Alpine body shells that Jensen modified. They came directly from the factory and were ordered as such before being sent to Jensen. You can find some other bits that are on Alpines and never put on a Tiger body shell, like the Alpine spare tire mount is never installed on a Tiger.

And no matter how argue the point, if you take an Alpine and add Tiger parts to it what you have created is a Tiger built in your garage or shed, nothing more and nothing less. It was not built by Rootes or Jensen and it is a rebody with a fake/fraudulent provenance if you try to pass it off as a genuine Rootes Sunbeam Tiger.

Dude,

Prepare yourself for a rebuttal. I totally agree with what you have written though. Your final paragraph is the clincher. The only thing I can say is that an Alpine with added Tiger parts built in the garage or shed can't be called a Tiger as much as some would like it to be. I'm glad you got on-board.

Regards, Robin.

[65beam]

i once saw a tiger that nobody even knew about that showed up at a sunbeam meet. several tiger owners owners asked if it was tac'ed. he knew nothing about what they were talking about. finally someone explained to him that the car was not documented to be an original car. he told them that he bought it new so he didn't care what others thought and if they thought it had to be inspected to make sure it was genuine then they could leave his space. it left him with a bad taste in his mouth for many tiger owners. he also had a few other choice things to say about their attitude. i guess if it was something like the first tiger built or the last or a special car such as the targa car or the HSC car then you could justify all the repairs that might be needed to restore the original. if you threaten to go to litigation or think every car has to be inspected to be proven to be original, or feel paranoid about someone taking advantage of you by selling you something that you feel isn't right then the car hobby may not be something for you to be involved in. there is no way it could be fun for you! you're always looking over your shoulder. why demand others follow your direction? enjoy your car in your way but don't expect everone to follow your directions. what percentage of tigers are known to exist worlwide? does anybody have an idea? if the exact number known to exist were real high i would say there is a good chance of rebodies. for what it's worth, i have 4 rebodies and i enjoy opening the five garage doors at the house and looking at the noses of my beams. i enjoy them!

[Warren]

Having been thru the ringer and having my car TAC'ed this last month, all I can say is BFD to numbers match. Most everything gets moved around on these cars.

These cars are toys to be played with, mine was!. A changed wing, an exploded drive train, numbers do not make the Tiger, but it all adds up. Lego like Tigers do not make my car any less a Tiger since the blocks came from the same assembly line.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, a re bodied Alpine as a Tiger is hot just like Pamela Anderson was, but just taint real.

[gtsmrt]

Having been thru the ringer and having my car TAC'ed this last month, all I can say is BFD to numbers match. Most everything gets moved around on these cars.

These cars are toys to be played with, mine was!. A changed wing, an exploded drive train, numbers do not make the Tiger, but it all adds up. Lego like Tigers do not make my car any less a Tiger since the blocks came from the same assembly line.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, a re bodied Alpine as a Tiger is hot just like Pamela Anderson was, but just taint real.

I like your analogy Warren and so very true. Dress up your Alpine all you like, it will still be an Alpine.

[alpine5gt]

Steven,

This whole STICKY thread has been for the sake of discussing "Re Shelling"

No one on here is questioning the legitimacy of your car because you have changed wings (Fenders? Mudgaurds?) It is still obviously a Tiger.

The point we have been trying to thrash out here is this, The subtly modified Tiger shares the same basic unibody as the Alpine. And therefore as a derivertive of the Alpine it is being debated if it's acceptable OR NOT to use this body to re shell a rotten Tiger.

If as some say they are two completely different bodies? then we must leave well alone and look for parts and panel's elsewhere, Or there are those that see this is complete sillyness and rightly see them both as the same unibody.

Yes i do think that STOC should take charge of this issue as it need's clarifying,
Graham/STOC has been sitting on the fence listening i'm sure, but sooner or later a word from our sponsor should come

OK, suitably told my comments don't belong. I therefore retire from this thread and suggest all sensible Tiger owners do the same.

[gtsmrt]

Steven,

This whole STICKY thread has been for the sake of discussing "Re Shelling"

No one on here is questioning the legitimacy of your car because you have changed wings (Fenders? Mudgaurds?) It is still obviously a Tiger.

The point we have been trying to thrash out here is this, The subtly modified Tiger shares the same basic unibody as the Alpine. And therefore as a derivertive of the Alpine it is being debated if it's acceptable OR NOT to use this body to re shell a rotten Tiger.

If as some say they are two completely different bodies? then we must leave well alone and look for parts and panel's elsewhere, Or there are those that see this is complete sillyness and rightly see them both as the same unibody.

Yes i do think that STOC should take charge of this issue as it need's clarifying,
Graham/STOC has been sitting on the fence listening i'm sure, but sooner or later a word from our sponsor should come

OK, suitably told my comments don't belong. I therefore retire from this thread and suggest all sensible Tiger owners do the same.

I don't blame you, I didn't think I would post any more either but look at me.

[dude234]

Hi Robin,

I don't know what you are rebutting from my statements. My position has always been the same and is rebodies are not genuine Rootes ordered and Jensen built Sunbeam tigers.

The problem always comes about when someone in their garage or shed decides to create or "save" a Sunbeam Tiger and tries to pass it off as factory built. No matter how you try to justify it, that is fraud.