Brake hose copper washer

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meadowhog
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Brake hose copper washer

Post by meadowhog » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:19 pm

I've just bought some braided stainless hoses for standard callipers. The thread seems too short to bottom out in the calliper or it may just be long enough but is supplied with copper washers. I assume the washers are to seal the hose to the calliper but if the taper does not mate will this cause problems? So have I been supplied the wrong hose?

They are made by Black Diamond.

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redbaron
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Brake hose copper washer

Post by redbaron » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:29 pm

The brake hose union ends are different,the longer bulkhead ends will be fitted to the bracket on the crossmember and the shorter unions fit the calipers,with this type of fitting to make a seal you must use a copper washer as the fittings seal against the face and not the seat.
Metric fittings seal on the seat and do not require a copper washer.
The rear hose has two ends the same, as a hard line with a concave flare will seal on to it

meadowhog
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Post by meadowhog » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:14 pm

The ones I took off have two long ends and seated inside the calliper not on the face. My concerns with using the short end on the calliper is the possibility of trapping air at the joint.

The new rear hose is the same as the front ones. This then may not fit. I haven't looked yet.

I've got the front to fit by removing the crossmember floating clip. The inboard end now bottoms out on the swaged hose and the long end bottoms out as I expected in the calliper like the one I took off. Currently I'm happy with that. I haven't got time to send them back.

Thanks for the help, I need it as it needs an MOT on Wednesday and track day on Thursday!

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redbaron
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Re: Brake hose copper washer

Post by redbaron » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:53 pm

Meadowhog,
you originally said that the brake hose's end may be to short to "Bottom out " in the caliper,are the hoses the same for all three,are the ends all the same length.
The short fittings go into the caliper thread and have a copper washer under the hexagon to seal the union,they do not seal on the concave seat.
The longer end fits through the crossmember bracket and retaining clip.
Are the hoses correct in the thread form,i.e imperial and not metric ,as metric M10 will screw in but be loose to the feel of your hand.
You must fit the brake hoses correctly and pressure test after bleeding the system.
There will be no trapped air under the short fitting after you have bleed the system,you need to bleed the whole system and use a good quality brake fluid of DOT 4 minimum

meadowhog
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Post by meadowhog » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:56 am

Hi David,
Yes all three are the same one threaded end is longer than the other on the new ones. Over the past 30 years I don't remember ever having a copper washer and short end on the calliper end of the hose but then that maybe more to do with my memory.
If it works like that I'll swap them round. There's less chance of the inboard joint coming undone.
DOT 4 ready to go.

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redbaron
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Brake hose copper washer

Post by redbaron » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:46 am

Hi Meadowhog,
If all the three brake hoses are the same,i.e end to end and length,then they do not seem to be a very good product.
You may have an early Alpine hose set,as they had a rear hose that fitted to a three way union on the rear axle.
The two front hoses should be different to the one rear,the fronts should have a shorter caliper union fitting and a bulkhead fitting on the other end.
The rear hose will have both ends with bulkhead fittings,one to fit to bodyshell bracket,secured with an internal shakeproof washer and 3/82UNF half nut,the other to axle bracket with the same fastners.
The two fronts as mentioned before fitted with either the loose clip or shakeproof and nut to crossmember, and short union end,with copper washer into caliper,if you look at caliper you will see where it is "Spot Faced" after drilling and tapping to allow washer to seal on flat surface.
When fitting front hoses,fit the caliper ends first with wheels in straight ahead postion,and not twisted.

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pushrod
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Post by pushrod » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:35 pm

I've just fitted a set of these hoses.

Of the three hoses the two of the same length went on the front and the slightly longer one on the rear.

The front ones went on fine but I'm not happy with the rear pipe as it has one short end like the fronts. It has tightened up onto the union without the supporting nut. I'll see what happens when I try to bleed the system.
65 Mk1 Tiger 260
66 Mk1 Tiger 260 (African Violet)
63 Ford Falcon Sprint
63 Ford Falcon Monte Carlo Rally replica
02 Honda Valkyrie

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redbaron
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Brake hose copper washer

Post by redbaron » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:09 pm

Hi Lou,
the rear hose that you have fitted without the retaining nut and washer,will be using the brake pipe union nut to hold to the bracket,not an ideal situation and one that should be replaced with the correct hose,these are made for the earlier Alpine,where the rear hose screws into a brass union on the axle and thus will have one end shorter,like the caliper end.

Better to get the correct hose and fit with a shakeproof washer and half nut at either end.

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pushrod
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Post by pushrod » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:06 pm

I contacted Black Diamond earlier today and they responded fairly quickly saying that they had sold many of these kits without complaint. They asked if I had modified my braking system with a "non standard calliper on the back"!

I've since got back to them saying the parts are actually incorrect for a Tiger and I've asked for a replacement hose with the correct fittings. Let's see how they reply to this request.

Am I right to assume that if I were to fit the hose as supplied it could potentially break off, rendering my brakes inoperative? Crash bang wallop.

Lou.
65 Mk1 Tiger 260
66 Mk1 Tiger 260 (African Violet)
63 Ford Falcon Sprint
63 Ford Falcon Monte Carlo Rally replica
02 Honda Valkyrie

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redbaron
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Brake hose copper washer

Post by redbaron » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:54 pm

Lou,
good job that you contacted the hose suppliers,hopefully they will provide the correct rear hose.
If you were to try and fit that hose with the short union on one end you would not be able to anchor the hose to the bracket,only by fitting the hard brake pipe union nut,which may not tighten fully onto the flare of the pipe and cause a potential and dangerous leak under pressure.

The longer fitting is to enable the washer and nut to secure the hose to a bracket etc,and still leave enough thread to tighten the hard pipe union without bottoming out.

meadowhog
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Post by meadowhog » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:12 am

Thanks Lou,
I'll get hold of them too. Ive yet to to fit the rear. I must say the reviews Ive read about Black Diamond are good I just think they've got the spec wrong for the rear. Ive turned the fronts round as Mr.Red advised, did a track day and had no problems with the hoses or fluid even though I warped a disk!
Si

meadowhog
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Post by meadowhog » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:45 pm

Good news, Black Diamond has contacted us and is sending us the correct replacement. They have also asked if anyone knows when the rear hose changed. They want this to update their details so everyone gets the correct hoses. Would I be correct in saying SI & SII have short and long on each end, all other Series and MK are long on both ends?

I'm vey impressed especially as I got a call from them at 8pm. I would recommend them to anyone especially as they're made in the UK and the price is attractive.

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