Another Tiger on Ebay

Post general questions relating to Tigers
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Post by michael-king » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:37 am

Red Race Tiger,

I dont think people (even TAC people) have issues with people reshelling a beyond repair rusty/damaged tiger with an alpine shell. I think you will find the issue comes up when it becomes about desecption.

There is nothing wrong with reshelling and making an Alpine V8 (not EU spec tiger just to clarify) but when you swap the VIN and JAL tags over to the alpine shell you are transfering the idenity of the car, and to be honest, the only reason to do that is to try and pass it of as something it never was and generally for current or fututre financial gain.

If you kept the alpine VIN and SAL tags, no harm no foul as there is no hidding what has occured. I guess the reason people swap the VIN and JAL over is for financial reasons, they want to gain more money if they sell the car as an original Tiger is more valued than a converted Alpine, as an original Tiger was a factory conversion not aftermarket.

A good example is in the historic racing world with the FIA HTP's. You can have recreation cars now running around with factory cars, but it is made clear that despite being tool room copies they are identified as a reproduction, not a factory car. They are valued for what they are, something that delivers all the aythentic experience of the orginal but is a reproduction.

You also have cars that are extreemly drastic restoration/recreations, such as vintage racers where all that may be left of the original car is the chassis and engine or diff.. but in such extensive rebuilds where much of the car is recreated there is always disclosure.

Long and the short, an alpine V8 conversion can offer all the experiences of a Tiger, infact you could modify one to be a much better car wihtout concrens of bastardising an original Tiger (though alpine people may not be so fogiving!) and as long as you are not trying to say the car was an original tiger i dont think anyone would have a problem with it.
Michael King
63 Alpine SII - 65 Alpine SIVGT
65 Tiger MKI - 66 Tiger MKIA

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Post by garyv8tiger » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:49 am

good point about the heritage shells,as long as a car is known to a buyer its a reshell with or without tiger id i cant see the problem ,i reshelled xr3s in the 80s the people who bought them new what they were just by the price

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Post by bigbob » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:01 pm

Surely an Alpine bodyshell modified to take Tiger runnung gear, with Tiger ID tags is still a Tiger & worth the same. Probably a better buy than a patched rusty original.
Looks like a Tiger, sounds like a Tiger, goes like a Tiger...its a Tiger!

Red Race Tiger

Post by Red Race Tiger » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:19 pm

My point exactly altough i freely i admit it's just my view, but do we simply let a Tiger quietly rust away because we may be defraulding someone we reshell, keep that car alive and enjoy it for many years to come???

A point of discussion here is What Constitutes a CAR exactly?? Which part?

The Shell? The Engine? Gearbox? The running gear& or Axle? Which?

I trained with Ford as a Technician way back when in the 80'/90s and as such i personally re-shelled various Ford vehicles including Sierra Cosworth's, Granada Scorpio's, Transit's and even Cab changes on Ford Cargo's and Iveco Trucks.

The shells would arrive freshley painted from the bodyshop ready for work to begin, after 40 +hours of work Hey Presto a brand new Seirra Cosworth for the happy owner to drive away again leaving the old shell in the compound.....for the insurance company to either dispose off or the local scrap man to collect.

The point being here is and it's an obvious one.....what constitutes THE CAR??
1 The original shell? Crumpled....rusted.... ie scrap or
2 The reshelled vehicle complete with swapped over Vin Number plates?

If it's the original Shell? then how is it that the re-shelled vehicle is 100% legal to be re-shelled and thus keep it's original I D and reg number?

Another intresting point.

Recent history has it that a well known restorer of Bugati's had THREE original type 34's in his workshop part way through restoration, when asked by a well known marque historian which car was original the restorer said ALL OF THEM, the Front Chassis Section and Front Axle from car A were Original, the Middle Section and Gearbox from car B were Original and the Rear Chassis Section and Rear Axle from car C were also Original? All Three were derived from the same car so Which car was the Original?

So, and sorry for being so long winded here, but my point being and it's an important one is......

If ALL Tiger's were ALPINE's to begin with and that provided the workmanship is top class and all items are carried over how can it be so wrong to re-shell an Tiger with a rust free Alpine shell. A great car is saved an the marque live's on.

And my final point must be, is as Mr KING states any "Tiger" that has had a An Alpine re-shell MUST carry the Alpine Chassis and SAL Numbers?
What tosh, this would only serve to muddy the waters further and i agree with Big Bob, Looks like? Sound's Like? Goes's Like, it's a Tiger.....

One more note of Humour, in the 70's Ford Motor Company fielded "TWO" MK1 Escorts on "TWO" different rally's at "THE" same time.....on the SAME registration and chassis number's.

Just a veiw point and an intresting topic. :D :D

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Post by martin172 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:32 pm

It's an interesting topic.

How much of the original car does constitute the original car?

Wasn't there a court case in the last century regarding this with Old No1?

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Post by Tomaselli » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:06 pm

Thread discussion has clearly now gone "off topic" and the recent conversation over "re-shelling" has been exhausted.

Time to move on gents ..... :!: