Starting ?

Mal · Post by **Mal** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:04 am

I have finally got the Tiger registerd and road legal :

. I took it out for a drive and stopped to get petrol. When I went to start it and it would not start. I thought I may have flooded it. Put my foot flat to the floor and turned it over and it still won't start. Then the battery started to die. Some one gave me a push and it fired up instantly. It does need a tune, but.
Why does it start so easily crash starting it, but wouldn't on the starter

.
I have had this happen before with cars. Any mechanical geniuses out there that can explain why.
Also when I put the battery on charge it was fully charged in half an hour.
Starter , soleniod starting to go

Temp at 90 deg by gauge.
Cheers Mal.

Mal · Post by **Mal** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:23 am

We took it out for a drive today, about 50k. The outside, and inside air temp around 20c. Engine stayed around 80-90c. Hopefully once it has been tuned it will run around this temp when the air is in the high 20 early 30s. I took a pic, so I thought I would share.
Cheers Mal

JAYANDSHEL · Post by **JAYANDSHEL** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:38 pm

Always a hard one to diagnose a prob without the car infront of you, but a couple of questions for you
How quickly was the car turning over?
what is the cold cranking rate of your battery?
The fact it bumpstarts very easy tends to point in the direction of starter or the batery itself hence my two questions.

Jay

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:23 am

Hi Mal,

Beautiful Tiger Mal

. I had exactly what you described with my Tiger and even with my Father when he had it and it frustrates the hell of you you. From what you describe, it sounds a lot like heat soak causing the fuel to boil off (no where for the heat to go when the engine is off). It has happened to me a number of times even with the car running perfectly. I flattened the battery trying to restart the engine. The best thing to overcome this issue I found, was a decent battery. I installed an Optima battery and have never looked back (the best $300 I spent).

Hope this helps.

Regards, Robin.

Mal · Post by **Mal** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:55 am

Jay.
At the start it was turning over as normal, but not for long. Long enough though to start the car. The battery is for a diesel 4x4 so it should have plenty of power for the Tiger. It had been sitting around for a long time though, but I did charge it from time to time. I think I will get the battery and the starter tested when it is in getting tunned.

Robin.
The photo dosn't show the truth. The body needs a bit of work, but it's not to bad. Hopefully I will get it sorted out in winter.
I know what you mean about heat soak. but with an electric pump the carb should fill instantly. Also I had only been driving it quietly. I could imagine it could be a problem in a Tiger after sprited driving.
Thanks for the replys guys.
Cheers Mal

bigbob · Post by **bigbob** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:27 am

Sometimes if some of the electrical connections are poor, when using the starter all the power goes to that & diverts it from the coil. Hence it starts fine when pushed. Check all connections around the solenoid & check the ballast resistor. A thin insulated spacer under the carb is always a good investment to cure hot starting problems.

V8 burble · Post by **V8 burble** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:17 am

I agree with bigbob and gtsmrt. This classic Tiger problem is likely to be fuel percolation caused by heat soak. When the engine is stopped after a decent run, coolant is no longer being circulated through the block, heads and radiator. The heat builds up and is transferred to the inlet manifold and carburettor body and fuel bowls.
There are several things you can try.
First, buy and install as thick a phenolic spacer as possible (½, ¾, 1 inch) which will still allow you to close the bonnet on the air cleaner. This should drop the temperature of the carburettor body considerably. Touch the carburettor body before and after fitting the spacer and feel the difference.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part ... lic+spacer

Second, if possible after a run, open the bonnet to allow some of the heat to escape. Running electric fans may help a little but there is no substitute for pumped coolant circulation.
Third, fit a transparent inline fuel filter (5/16 or 3/8 inch fittings) similar to this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-9245/

This will let you see if the fuel is bubbling due to the fuel pipes getting hot. The fuel pipes near the engine/exhaust can be insulated by splitting a suitable piece of rubber hose.

As per bigbob's suggestion, also check all your electrical connections and the state of your battery.

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:20 pm

Hi Mal,

I found it didn't matter about how you drive. Once you stop, the heat builds up and the inevitable happens. There are a few ideas posted for you, let us know how you progress.

Regards, Robin.

V8 burble · Post by **V8 burble** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:53 pm

A wise old Chinese soothsayer once told me:

Man who switch off fuel supply just before end of journey will later restart Tiger more easily because of cold fuel reaching empty bowl.

He also told me that the fuel switch was a good anti-theft device.

Mal · Post by **Mal** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:13 am

Thanks for the help everyone. I did make up a spacer out of wood but it split. Wood is one of the best insulators against heat you can use.You can buy them, but you need to replace them from time to time. I dont think NZ pine is up to the task. I will be getting a phenolic spacer instead.
Having a switch to the pump is a good idea.
Cheers Mal

michael-king · Post by **michael-king** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:23 am

its also a good idea to relocate the pump from the stock location above the mufflers to the boot as per MKII. apart from fire issues and the heat wrecking the pump, it just makes more sense.

As a side note.. you can also make a heat sheild for the mufflers bellow the pump... but moving it is a better option

Mal · Post by **Mal** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:31 am

Thanks Michael.
The pump has been moved to the boot. in the spare wheel well.
Cheers Mal.

Mal · Post by **Mal** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:48 am

The car has been in for a tune this week. It has not been running right, and they think it has a intake manifold vaccum leak. Hopefully new gaskets will have it running well.
They tested the battery and it is on it's way out. Not supplying enough power to the coil which is why it's not starting as easily as it should. I am still going to put on a phenolic spacer though to stop vapour lock.
Cheers mal.

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:53 am

Mal wrote:The car has been in for a tune this week. It has not been running right, and they think it has a intake manifold vaccum leak. Hopefully new gaskets will have it running well.
They tested the battery and it is on it's way out. Not supplying enough power to the coil which is why it's not starting as easily as it should. I am still going to put on a phenolic spacer though to stop vapour lock.
Cheers mal.

Hi Mal,

Glad to hear that things are getting sorted out and those few issues would not have helped your situation. As your battery is cactus, get the best battery that you can afford (you will not regret it).

Good Luck, Robin.