Me, better brakes a limited slip diff' as standard and leather seats would have been nice
Sunbeam Tiger MK3
Sunbeam Tiger MK3
Had Rootes continued and Chrysler not interfered, what would you expect to see in the MK3 Tiger or indeed as customers (then) what would you have wanted?
Me, better brakes a limited slip diff' as standard and leather seats would have been nice
Me, better brakes a limited slip diff' as standard and leather seats would have been nice
Wouldn't that have been fantastic for Rootes to have continued without the Chrysler interference. For me, I also would like to have seen better brakes (4 wheel disc brakes and 15" rims), limited slip diff, independent rear suspension (or at least a watts link) with a re-designed body allowing for better heat dissipation and the correction of the ackerman angle with a wider and longer track (not too much though). In the engine department, at least a 289 or 302 with minimum four barrel carby and five speed manual gearbox and some nice high backed seats inside. I would be very happy with a spec sheet like that. 
I see what you did here Tony... Very nice move!!
I see what you did here Tony... Very nice move!!
Robin O'Dell
Tiger MK 1a
ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE
Tiger MK 1a
ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE
A five speed box seems a sensible choice in this day and age, but was it a realistic consideration in the sixties, probably not. Probably would have pushed the cost of the car towards E-type levels, I know which one I would have had as a customer then
I suppose we can take some idea from what the factory prototype cars were trying out then, yes larger/better brakes, five stud hubs and larger wheels looks sensible. Perhaps for the American market, auto box? Anything else on the AF cars which may have been put into production?
OK, running list so far;
1) bigger brakes
2) LSD
3) Ackerman issues solved
4) Watts linkage/rear geometry improvements.
5) Four barrel carb
6) Leather upholstery/seats with side supports
Not sure if a supercharger and air suspension was something the consumer wanted in them days
I believe Rootes took some negative press comments that visually the Alpine and Tigers had very similar chrome trim finish, perhaps some extra bling to show the difference between the two models? Air vents/scoops to aid ventilation/cooling.
I suppose we can take some idea from what the factory prototype cars were trying out then, yes larger/better brakes, five stud hubs and larger wheels looks sensible. Perhaps for the American market, auto box? Anything else on the AF cars which may have been put into production?
OK, running list so far;
1) bigger brakes
2) LSD
3) Ackerman issues solved
4) Watts linkage/rear geometry improvements.
5) Four barrel carb
6) Leather upholstery/seats with side supports
Not sure if a supercharger and air suspension was something the consumer wanted in them days
I believe Rootes took some negative press comments that visually the Alpine and Tigers had very similar chrome trim finish, perhaps some extra bling to show the difference between the two models? Air vents/scoops to aid ventilation/cooling.
A major redesign of the basic unibody would probably have been cost prohibitive as a practical matter. The volume of sales would have probably made the payback period unacceptably long. (Post post edit: Graham, did not see your coupe suggestion as I was typing at the time. See my follow up endorsement of your great idea!)
But within the existing envelop what might be done? For me, making the car handle better would have been the most desirable improvement to be found in a Mark III. A sports car is supposed to be agile. The Tiger is infamous for not wanting to turn. The suspension design seems a rather slow evolution of what was created in the 1950's. I have been told the roll center of the front suspension is actually below ground level. As already noted, a fix of the Ackerman angle steering problem would be a major step forward. Also resizing the A-Arms or changing their attachment points just to get negative camber in upward deflection would not seem cost prohibitive. Wider wheel wells (fenders/wings) to accommodate wider wheels would also seem within the cost containment limits.
A cynic once commented that the rear leaf springs looked like the design engineer was just looking for a place to hang them rather than any serious thought given to handling design criteria. To be fair, I am not sure what was the state of the art philosophy at the time. But again maybe just a cost driven carryover from the 1950's. So all the rear end improvements, including a bit longer wheel base, noted in prior posts also get my vote.
If a 5 speed would have been cost prohibitive, I wonder if some form of electric actuated overdrive like the big Healeys had could have been grafted on?
As I understand it, the Tiger was aimed at the export market more than the home market back in the day. Not unlike the Austin Healey was said to be. In that context, those of us living in the warmer climes would have appreciated air conditioning as an option. Even just having functioning front quarter window venting would have been nice. And with the big V8 power, maybe the power robbing effect of AC on performance would not have been as noticable as it probably would have been in the Alpine. As for air conditioning, even the Corvettes eventually got around to it!
BTW, as I see this thread develop, the upgrades people would have wanted seems remarkably similar ex post facto to what many have made on their own!
Gene
But within the existing envelop what might be done? For me, making the car handle better would have been the most desirable improvement to be found in a Mark III. A sports car is supposed to be agile. The Tiger is infamous for not wanting to turn. The suspension design seems a rather slow evolution of what was created in the 1950's. I have been told the roll center of the front suspension is actually below ground level. As already noted, a fix of the Ackerman angle steering problem would be a major step forward. Also resizing the A-Arms or changing their attachment points just to get negative camber in upward deflection would not seem cost prohibitive. Wider wheel wells (fenders/wings) to accommodate wider wheels would also seem within the cost containment limits.
A cynic once commented that the rear leaf springs looked like the design engineer was just looking for a place to hang them rather than any serious thought given to handling design criteria. To be fair, I am not sure what was the state of the art philosophy at the time. But again maybe just a cost driven carryover from the 1950's. So all the rear end improvements, including a bit longer wheel base, noted in prior posts also get my vote.
If a 5 speed would have been cost prohibitive, I wonder if some form of electric actuated overdrive like the big Healeys had could have been grafted on?
As I understand it, the Tiger was aimed at the export market more than the home market back in the day. Not unlike the Austin Healey was said to be. In that context, those of us living in the warmer climes would have appreciated air conditioning as an option. Even just having functioning front quarter window venting would have been nice. And with the big V8 power, maybe the power robbing effect of AC on performance would not have been as noticable as it probably would have been in the Alpine. As for air conditioning, even the Corvettes eventually got around to it!
BTW, as I see this thread develop, the upgrades people would have wanted seems remarkably similar ex post facto to what many have made on their own!
Gene
Last edited by tigerguy2 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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garyv8tiger
- Posts: 650
- Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:57 am
Hi Tony,Tomaselli wrote:A five speed box seems a sensible choice in this day and age, but was it a realistic consideration in the sixties, probably not. Probably would have pushed the cost of the car towards E-type levels, I know which one I would have had as a customer then
The way I look at it, with all of the previously mentioned additions higher performance would be achievable including top speed warranting a 5 speed box. It was also the late sixties moving into the seventies, meaning muscle car era.
I also like the idea of bonnet scoops or other body changes to make it look more individual/aggressive compared to the Alpine. Regards, Robin.
Robin O'Dell
Tiger MK 1a
ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE
Tiger MK 1a
ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE
Did think about that, as my Rapier with overdrive works a treat and is a cheaper solution to produce a five speed on the production line, but you'll agree with me - there ain't a lot of room at the back of the box under a Tiger to assemble an overdrive unittigerguy2 wrote:If a 5 speed would have been cost prohibitive, I wonder if some form of electric actuated overdrive like the big Healeys had could have been grafted on?