sunbeamtiger.co.uk

65beam wrote:if i remember right, peter had this blue car and a couple others shipped to the east coast and they drove them to snow mass ,colorado for suni 1 in 1989. i had two harringtons at the time. it was interesting to not only see the only tiger converted by harrington but also to see peter's car. isn't the blue car the original tiger that he installed series 3 rear wings and the harrington top on ?

The link to that car is in a previous post.

Included is a link to the story of the one and only Harringtion Sunbeam Tiger.


http://www.harringtonalpine.org/index.php?categoryid=99

who now owns the harrington tiger? i last saw it at suni 2 in 1994. i had my red harrington there and we were parked together the day of the concorse. i know it was for sale many years later. several months ago one owner here in the states was asking if anyone knew where it is, but i haven't seen anyone post the present location of it. any ideas??

Red Race Tiger wrote:...snip...But a Jenson built Tiger lays just underneath.

The 2 reshell threads have been destickied to save all our blushes and hopefully still show the ww Tiger community we can debate with rather slag one another off.

Graham
STOC Editor

I'd just like to say thanks to all who contributed to this thread while I was on holiday.
This thread kept me very entertained while I was away.

Red neck pilgrims, "our cars" and other such moments. Absolute gems.

It's also a shame that the commenters at the spares day can't get themselves into gear and vote in the poll.........assuming that they are UK owners ofcourse.

How can it be debated when post's continue to be taken down, this subject has caused huge intrest and at times heated comments which show the obvious devide.

All the more heated when genuine arguments are taken down in favour of keeping the peace.....What's the point?

There are those on here that post just for the sake of winding us all up with nonesense, whilst others with genuine valid points are prevented from airing a view for fear of prevoking the opposite response (Mostly from abroad)

It really does hack me off when i'm continuosly singled out on a UK forum by others who live thousands of miles away when this is a UK club, of which i am a member.

May i remind that this subject was about reshelling a Sunbeam Tiger with a suitable rustfree Alpine bodyshell.....with full declaration of having been carried out. Not for personal jibes,

The Tiger shell is just a modified Alpine shell so personaly i do not see a problem......others do.

I see the Tiger as a factory modified Alpine, no more no less. Other's seem to think that it's a priceless gem, which of course it is not.

In years past the Tiger was viewed as a bit of an oddball, almost an embarrasment of a marque, without a niche, only through recent years has the model begun to realalise any value which is super and i'm personally pleased but this elietest attitude really grind's with me.

So unless we can all agree on a resolution to this childish bickering and agree a way forward giving a reshelled car some sort of status i really cant see why anybody should post anything further.

I've never said my points are more valid than others, just tried to put forward a view to be considered? and to suggest a consensus.

For my troubles i've taken some serious sh*t which although mainly i see the funny side of? but in reality frankly is a joke.

You will never reach the "NO NO" brigade, and unless the TAC system could/can be modified to introduce a catagory to allowing a reshelled Tiger to be a Tiger then it's dead in the water and it will just contuine un-checked.

Those of us like me who can/do/and have reshelled vehicles in the past would see this whole topic as pure hot air and a load of utter nonesense.

I agree that this shouldn't be discussed anymore as I don't see a common ground found because there isn't one.
You feel that reshelling is ok and others don't but you don't put your argument over a one, you put it over as fact.

"(IN YOUR OPINION) The Tiger shell is just a modified Alpine shell so personaly i do not see a problem......others do.

I see the Tiger as a factory modified Alpine, no more no less. Other's seem to think that it's a priceless gem, which ofcourse (IN YOUR OPINION) it is not."

Perhaps this is why you are perhaps singled out. You leave no room for negotiation, not that that is going to happen anyway.
This may be a UK club and a UK car but it is an Internatioal subject for discussion. The situation is the same all over the World.

There are those who believe that reshelling a Tiger no longer makes it a Tiger and it should carry the donor's VIN.
You have to accept that.

"Those of us like me who can/do/and have reshelled vehicles in the past would see this whole topic as pure hot air and a load of utter nonesense."

You can't possibly hope to be taken seriously if you end with comments like this and others.
Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't make them a moron.

Any chance it would be more interestring at this time to begin to discuss more of a buyer protection checklist related to authenticity, that is, what prior actions might lead to owner dissatisfaction after the sale, if not discovered during pre-sale investigation?

- Tampered VIN plate (removed, remade, transplanted, etc.)
- Salvage or scrap log book or title or whatever regulatory document applies
- Missing original critical components (rear axle, transmission, correct engine)
- Missing original hard-to-come-by parts or components (air cleaner, radiator tank, shroud, ec.).
- Undisclosed body or rust work (probably room for ten sub-headings here as a lot already discussed in thread)
- Undisclosed addition of Tiger-specific parts (I'm not in the know, but say for example a new tunnel has been fabricated or fitted) - yes, it's also bodywork, but probably there are a handful of key parts
- Undisclosed failing or broken components (suspension mounts, exhaust pass throughs, )

In that way, consensus would not be required, nor TAC, but could help Buyers decide if they are getting what they want. I'm writing undisclosed instead of something stronger, like fraudulent, due to legal meaning and also to give benefit of the doubt to someone managing their own repairs prior to the decision to sell, who may not think exactly like the Buyer in terms of what authenticity means to them.

The benefit to me would be the comprehensive list first, without focusing on consensus or a vote, and then perhaps a thousand posts later a multi-voting to group each particular into a sort of A-B-C priority targeting authenticity, since its unlikely any sub-group of more than a couple participants would ever agree on the total detail.

You can have a discussion with FACTS.



You end up with an argument with OPINIONS.


The facts of where, what, why, and who of the origin for a true, Rootes ordered, Jensen developed and built Sunbeam Tiger are well known. The information can be found reading the various books, looking at related web sites, joining the different clubs and talking to owners of genuine Tigers.

No one has ever said you can't plaster an Alpine body shell with Tiger geegaws and pretend you have a Tiger. It's your property and you can certainly do what you want with it.

However, will it be regarded as the "real thing" by clubs and owners of legitimate Tigers? No, because it wasn't created by Jensen on Rootes order back in the 1960's. At best you have a "tribute" Sunbeam Tiger and it will be regarded as one for time immemorial.

Wilbur Bud wrote:Any chance it would be more interestring at this time to begin to discuss more of a buyer protection checklist related to authenticity, that is, what prior actions might lead to owner dissatisfaction after the sale, if not discovered during pre-sale investigation?

- Tampered VIN plate (removed, remade, transplanted, etc.)
- Salvage or scrap log book or title or whatever regulatory document applies
- Missing original critical components (rear axle, transmission, correct engine)
- Missing original hard-to-come-by parts or components (air cleaner, radiator tank, shroud, ec.).
- Undisclosed body or rust work (probably room for ten sub-headings here as a lot already discussed in thread)
- Undisclosed addition of Tiger-specific parts (I'm not in the know, but say for example a new tunnel has been fabricated or fitted) - yes, it's also bodywork, but probably there are a handful of key parts
- Undisclosed failing or broken components (suspension mounts, exhaust pass throughs, )

In that way, consensus would not be required, nor TAC, but could help Buyers decide if they are getting what they want. I'm writing undisclosed instead of something stronger, like fraudulent, due to legal meaning and also to give benefit of the doubt to someone managing their own repairs prior to the decision to sell, who may not think exactly like the Buyer in terms of what authenticity means to them.

The benefit to me would be the comprehensive list first, without focusing on consensus or a vote, and then perhaps a thousand posts later a multi-voting to group each particular into a sort of A-B-C priority targeting authenticity, since its unlikely any sub-group of more than a couple participants would ever agree on the total detail.

Hi Wilbur

Weve tried that but the thread got frozen by the Mod. Could give the game away on how to build a Reshell properley, I guess?

Wilbur Bud,

Look at this web site http://www.rootes1.com/ and check out the heading labeled "The Fraud". You will find useful information posted there. Also, buy or borrow a copy of "The Book of Norman" (weird title but lots of hard to get information) and you will find more information on how to tell if the car you are looking at is real Tiger. Removeable parts like air cleaners or fan shrouds present on a car don't prove anything. Obviously you can move those from car to car easily.

If you read both sources you can have a 60% or better odds of finding a Jensen built Tiger.

Blah blah blah....so on and so on.

Dudie, who cares..........time for a change.

Red Race Tiger wrote:Blah blah blah....so on and so on...who cares..........time for a change.

Ah shucks - just when the JensonSpotting was getting interesting!

Red,

Your lack of maturity certainly shows through. No wonder you had nothing of substance to add to the discussion.