TAC - Tiger/Alpine re-shelling discussion thread.

dude234 · Post by **dude234** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:09 pm

"Where im going is, you are saying you cant restore a Tiger because there are/ were virtually no Tiger panels made. They are all Alpine apart from bulkhead, top hat exhaust passthrough and few other bits. To my mind using Alpine parts to only restore Alpines and make even less authentic panels (copies) to restore/repair, does not make one bit of sense."

meadowhog,

None of my entries on this list said do not restore a Tiger. Restore all you want using any piece of metal from any source you want.

Let me ask you a question. What in your mind constitutes "Rebody"? What is your definition of "restore"? I think you believe they are one and the same. Am I correct?

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:24 pm

meadowhog wrote:As you have said before a reshell is fine if its declared, why all this going back on what you agreed. What are you really afraid of?

Currentley we have Alpine V8s and Tiger fraud. Reshelling to a standard will go a long way to eliminating the fraud and defining the Alpine V8 difference.

I haven't gone back on anything I have said and what exactly are you suggesting? I am more than happy to accept conversions/re-shells for what they are, but I will never accept conversion/re-shell being labelled what they are not. How exactly will re-shelling help in eliminating fraud? Production of the Tiger ceased in the late 60's and there are obviously no authorised companies producing Tiger uni-bodies to replace rotted /damaged vehicles. This leaves only one option, to take an Alpine uni-body and modify it to suit the V8. The moment you rebadge/re-id that Alpine it's fraud, an impostor. Why do we need a definition of what an Alpine V8 is? It sort of sticks out like the proverbial doesn't it?

meadowhog · Post by **meadowhog** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:50 pm

dude234 wrote:"Where im going is, you are saying you cant restore a Tiger because there are/ were virtually no Tiger panels made. They are all Alpine apart from bulkhead, top hat exhaust passthrough and few other bits. To my mind using Alpine parts to only restore Alpines and make even less authentic panels (copies) to restore/repair, does not make one bit of sense."

meadowhog,

None of my entries on this list said do not restore a Tiger. Restore all you want using any piece of metal from any source you want.

Let me ask you a question. What in your mind constitutes "Rebody"? What is your definition of "restore"? I think you believe they are one and the same. Am I correct?

So restoring using Alpines parts is fine, glad that sorts that one out.

And wrong, Ive given my idea of the differences and I have time and time again asked for a definition from people of your leaning to give a definition but not even tiny hint of what that should be has been presented.

What makes me laugh is that advocates of reshells agree they should be declared. You lot are all conveniently forgetting that.

I dont think you have been reading this thread properly.

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:10 pm

If we can't give you the definition that you seek, well you best enlighten us with your knowledge that we must obviously lack.
One other comment. We haven't forgotten anything, so what if you declare that you have re-shelled. It's the fact that you don't seem understand that you label it something that is it not.

meadowhog · Post by **meadowhog** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:35 pm

gtsmrt wrote:
meadowhog wrote:As you have said before a reshell is fine if its declared, why all this going back on what you agreed. What are you really afraid of?

Currentley we have Alpine V8s and Tiger fraud. Reshelling to a standard will go a long way to eliminating the fraud and defining the Alpine V8 difference.
I haven't gone back on anything I have said and what exactly are you suggesting? I am more than happy to accept conversions/re-shells for what they are, but I will never accept conversion/re-shell being labelled what they are not. How exactly will re-shelling help in eliminating fraud? Production of the Tiger ceased in the late 60's and there are obviously no authorised companies producing Tiger uni-bodies to replace rotted /damaged vehicles. This leaves only one option, to take an Alpine uni-body and modify it to suit the V8. The moment you rebadge/re-id that Alpine it's fraud, an impostor. Why do we need a definition of what an Alpine V8 is? It sort of sticks out like the proverbial doesn't it?

OK, you do accept that Tiger reshells are OK as long as they are declared. I wanted to be clear on that as we then both agree. It would have to be labelled a Tiger Reshell and not Alger. I bet there are plenty of those out there that nobody knows about. Even your car could be a reshell and if you found out it was would you want it to be labelled an imposter.

A reshell is not fraud if declared. If it is accepted as a reshell and not Alpine V8 there are plenty of people that would accept it as a Tiger but until the likes of you, who dont know the difference without it being pointed out its not obvious.

Sorry I dont want a definition of an Alpine V8 that may well stick out, I could have written that better. I want a definition of guidlines to make an acceptable reshell and at what point does a restoration become a reshell. Ive asked you for that as its better coming from you, but alas Im still waiting. I guess you cant.

meadowhog · Post by **meadowhog** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:33 pm

gtsmrt wrote:Meadow hog,
You don't seem to grasp what I am saying. I accept that people will re-shell for what ever their reason. I do not accept them being something they're not, ie an Alpine cannot be masqueraded as a Tiger.
So it seems you don't want a definition at all, you want a guideline on 'how to build an Alger and get away with it'. Whether I can or I can't give you that information, when it comes to people building and passing off Alpines as Tiger's I will not be a part of. Get your guideline from other sources.

You right, no idea. Its OK to reshell a Tiger but its not. ~Thats the closest guess right now.

I dont need guidlines I wanted to hear them from you. As you dont know I guess thats why you want TAC so bad.

I have no intension and never have had to build a fake so keep your mudslinging to yourself.

Red Race Tiger · Post by **Red Race Tiger** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:02 pm

Robin,

For the love of god mate give it up....

A reshelled Tiger is a reshelled Tiger using an suitably modified Alpine shell (which the car directly derived from in the first place) Please get to grips with that? It you cannot then may i politely suggest you keep your pro TAC/US thought's to yourself and refrain from winding us Brit's up.

The Tiger is a British car, Built in Britain in a British factory and as such i would have thought that as "Brit's" our comment's and opinions should come first and be worthy of listerning too:?:

I have no desire to keep up this pathetic bickering, this thread was supposed to be constructive but instead it has turned out to be a slanging match across continents talking about Mustang's, Cobra's et al.....a complete joke.

Come on, let's be clear here please......The "Tiger" is /was a low volume 60's built (Sports) car dirived directly and adapted from the Sunbeam Alpine.....

90% of a Tiger is Alpine, it even shares the same 13" wheels and tyres, same pathetic under powered brakes, same trim same same same same same same .....etc. Why on earth can't that be accepted by the likes of you?

In it's own right the Alpine Is /Was a fantastic car, the fact that "Rootes" installed a V8 made it an even better car which we "ALL" adore, but underneath it's STILL an Alpine.

In Europe the "Tiger" is known as the " Alpine 260" if any of us were to reshell an "Alpine 260" with an "Alpine" shell would we be still having this same stupid debate

NO we wouldn't because it's all in the name.

All any of us "PRO" reshell advocates have been saying throught this debate is lets SAVE a "Tiger" ( As in the B947.....) that started this "Sticky"......embrace them as a "RESHELL" as long as they meet set and laid down specific's and are and here is the thing "DECLARED"

FOR THE LAST TIME.........."DECLARED"

I didn't buy the B947???? that started this debate, BUT i really now wish i had just to prove a point that as "DECLARED" a Sunberam Tiger can live again without the pathetic elitest finger pointing mantle of "ALGER" that serves nobody.

Have a nice weekend guys......

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:38 pm

So it would appear that only you two can mudsling and that you two are obviously the leading experts in this field. It doesn't seem to matter what points people bring up, you both twist them around to try and make other people look misinformed and belittled. Until you can both show the people on this forum a clear, concise and credible arguments why we should accept Alpine conversions this topic will never go anywhere.

dude234 · Post by **dude234** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:23 am

You can discuss this for the rest of time and unfortuately this discussion brings up the two type of people that exist in this world, the honest and the dishonest.

Just read through the discussion and it will not take long to figure out who belongs in what camp.

Red Race Tiger · Post by **Red Race Tiger** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:12 am

Dishonest.....

Dude are you for real

How on earth can anything be dishonest if it's being declared

That's the whole point of this topic, can you not read

Nobodies talking about reshelling and concealing it, i dont condone that and never would.

So where exactly is the Dishonesty, chose your words better there fella instead of trying to slur me.

Seems to me that the topic has leveled off now to the point that there is no valid reasons why a declared reshell cannot be carried out so instead it's my own character that's being called into question and childish name calling.

So because i have the skill and ability to save a car with a rebody that makes me dishonest does it? dont make me laugh.

Water off a ducks back there i'm affraid.....Next

Red Race Tiger · Post by **Red Race Tiger** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:02 am

Robin,

I have absolutely no problem with international posters at all, all our opinions are valid as long as the likes of you can accept a point of view without throwing you toys out've the pram when you dont get full agreement with your's.

I have some cracking good mates all over the world so another slur backfired there mate i'm affraid.

I haven't AS YET found a Tiger that requires a Reshell, if and when i ever do it shall be declared As Such and will stand on it's own merit's.

That's what your against is the fact that somebody (Like me) has the finance and ability to do it and put next to your car it would look 100% exactly the same.....that's what worries you because it would be exactly the same.

We can all deal with a botched up Alpine with a V8, that's an Alger.....but a near as dam it identicle Jenson rebody is quite another thing, that's a bit worrying to the likes of you that maybe the buying public wouldn't be that bothered. Tht's the crux of it.

The fact that Jenson didn't assemble the car makes zero difference. It would be judged for what it was, a reshelled well built example. DECLARED. No fruad, no dishonesty.

All i've ever suggested is to reshell a car isn't a crime and according to the DVLA transfering Vin& Jal soon wont be either.

As your argument seems to have run out've of legs to the point the character snips and idiotic immotion's are all that's posted i would politley suggest you do stop posting.

Nothing personal mate.

meadowhog · Post by **meadowhog** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:46 pm

If we were dishonest we wouldnt be discussing this matter. We would be out there hunting for wrecked Tigers to covertley turn into what would be described as 'never had any rust' Tigers. Its an arguement from people that are scared their car might be an imposter and as you said Robin,dont really know what theyre looking.

The MK 2 reshell up for sale at a reasonable price may struggle to sell. If reshells had been endorsed it would be accepted for what it is. If Reshells are not brought in under the umbrella of Tiger, I would bet a similar car would be advertised as genuine and that would be down to you lot driving it all underground.

The two types of people I see in this discussion are the skilled informed people and the people that equally love the car but see it more from a financial point of view.

We want it all out in the open, a genuine description for the current state of the car, which (Robin) you want but you dont. Still dont get where youre coming from. You guys cant see that and as long as you hold onto that view there will be people out there trying to con you. Paul and myself arent worried, we would probably see a fake regardless of TAC.

We all want to help prevent fraud at least weve come up with a way to help prevent that. TAC has its limittaions, what we are suggesting will help. I cant see any other suggestions coming from your side of the fence.

Mudslinging? Robin you need someone to read this thread back to you. You dont seem to know when your turning it personal.

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:50 pm

If you have no issue, why is it that you continue to have this 'us' and 'them' mentality and continue to insult prodominantly international members. You have absolutely no understanding of who I am or of my abilities and my financial position is none of your concern. If only you could put as much effort into your arguement for re-shelling as you do your insults, maybe they would make more sense.

"We can all deal with a botched up Alpine with a V8, that's an Alger.....but a near as dam it identicle Jenson rebody is quite another thing, that's a bit worrying to the likes of you that maybe the buying public wouldn't be that bothered. Tht's the crux of it.

The fact that Jenson didn't assemble the car makes zero difference. It would be judged for what it was, a reshelled well built example. DECLARED. No fruad, no dishonesty."

It's your above comments that leave people puzzled. It is also for this reason this topic will have no forseeable end. People who strive to make their converted Alpine indentical to a Jensen built Tiger and then think that it is a Tiger are the problem. It baffles me how declaring it makes it all OK, but the one comment I find amusing is the fact that if it is botched up, it's an Alger.

(look another emoticon

).

By the way, I certainly haven't run out of steam and I will not stand back and be insulted or be told to stop posting by the likes of you. Last time I checked you are no moderator. Those same idiotic emoticons are the same ones YOU also use.

meadowhog · Post by **meadowhog** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:33 pm

Red Race Tiger · Post by **Red Race Tiger** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:58 pm

Robin,

You accussed me of getting stressy in my post's, mate calm down or your gonna blow a big fuse there....

I get the impression you may think Meadowdog and i are mates and in this topic for some sort of gain? Truth be told we've never even met and have nothing to gain other than common sense.

You said yourself that you didn't know why you continued to post on this topic? If you feel that way and you really cant handle others valid opinions....stop posting and leave, Simples.

You opinionate about the UK's DVLA when it reality it has diddly to do with you, not your concern really at all is it?

I have 100% no problem at all with oversea's posters period, except when they start laying down the law about what can and cannot do here in the UK where the car was built.

You can rant on as much as you like mate but the doors are locked, lights are out and your mumbling to yourself in the dark there fella. Everyone else has gone home

Ps, Nobody is going to Lock Out a topic just because YOU dont agree with it.

That's hardly democratic mate.