Tiger/Alpine re-shelling discussion thread.

Post general questions relating to Tigers
Red Race Tiger

Post by Red Race Tiger » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:34 pm

Ash,


Quite possibly so mate. Quite possibly. :lol:

65beam
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:46 pm

rebody

Post by 65beam » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:43 pm

did the tiger start out as an alpine body or did pressed steel set up an entirely different section of manufacturing facilities to build a body shell that would only be used for the tiger? yes, the MK2 had no battery box opening but it doesn't sound feasable financially to have two lines since production was so low. i thought jenson installed the tunnel and inner fender braces,panhard mount,cut the x frame for the exhaust, etc. the front crossmember is a modified alpine part,the windshield is alpine,the wheels are alpine, seats are alpine,fuel tanks are alpine. come to think of it everything is alpine except the few tiger specific panels and drive train. as i've said many times; look at the two bodies in a bare metal state and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what modifications jenson did to the alpine to build the tiger. i guess the tiger is a modified alpine.

garyv8tiger
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Post by garyv8tiger » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:31 pm

Red Race Tiger wrote:Blimey,

There's a very valid point that just fell from the sky.....

According to what's been clearly pointed out the TAC system isn't concerned about any mechanical modification's carried out to a Tiger to pass it, ie engine gearbox axle and brakes can all be cast aside and it's still a Tiger? TAC's just looking for Jenson identifiers correct??

In that case surely a Mk1 MK1A or a Mk2 would still be granted a TAC fitted with an Alpine engine gearbox and back axle :?: Why not?

In these time of austerity and the high price of fuel it sure makes sense to me, and a smaller carbon footprint too....it's the responsible thing to do.


We should all fit Alpine engine's to out car's. It's still a Tiger.


See where i was going with that :wink:

i think tomasellie has an alpine engine in his mk2 the speed he drives it :mrgreen:

gtsmrt
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Post by gtsmrt » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:52 pm

Red Race Tiger wrote:We both should be on the stage with this amount of humour, perhaps a bouble act :?:


So if as you say you could restore any Tiger ( Lets say that two ended Mk2) for instance which has been TAC'd and use Alpine running gear? And it's stiill TAC'able And it that case as it's already half Alpine to begin with (Back end) the car would indeed be only 1/4 Jenson produced, in fact even less as it had NOS front wings and valance etc....

Stick with me here, so if all that can happen and it's STILL a TAC'd Tiger why on earth can't you take a rotten Tiger and transfere over all the parts to an Alpine shell? There's more genuine Tiger there then the TAC'd half car.

And before someone cries out the Alpine shell HAD A LIFE.....it's not a sentient being. It's not alive. Just a piece of tin.
Or even a double act :)

The second part to your question is plainly obvious, surely we don't need to go into that again.
Robin O'Dell
Tiger MK 1a
ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE

Red Race Tiger

Post by Red Race Tiger » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:19 am

It's not that i cant spell, i just dont check it before i post it....Doh!!


No i will keep asking this qusestion until i get a definative answer.


If as been stated you can use doors bonnet and boot from an Alpine and it's still a Tiger, if you cut a Tiger in half and glue an Alpine back end on and it's Still a Tiger which is an Alpine underneath anyway regardless.... so

Why cant a Tiger be saved by a shell change? You can use as much of the Alpine shell and panels AS LONG as it's NOT the whole shell??

That's just soppy. I'm sorry but it is. Soppy.

gtsmrt
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Post by gtsmrt » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:34 am

Red Race Tiger wrote:It's not that i cant spell, i just dont check it before i post it....Doh!!


No i will keep asking this qusestion until i get a definative answer.


If as been stated you can use doors bonnet and boot from an Alpine and it's still a Tiger, if you cut a Tiger in half and glue an Alpine back end on and it's Still a Tiger which is an Alpine underneath anyway regardless.... so

Why cant a Tiger be saved by a shell change? You can use as much of the Alpine shell and panels AS LONG as it's NOT the whole shell??

That's just soppy. I'm sorry but it is. Soppy.
Are you serious or are you pulling my leg?

Seeing as doors, bonnets and boots are common to both models, does that clear up that side. In regards to the MkII with the Alpine rear that is supposed to be TACed (and I'm yet to see), if the body has passed it has obviously provided the inspectors enough information/evidence to prove that it is indeed an original Tiger.

The last part of your question, I shouldn't even bother, but it is plainly obvious that an Alpine body shell was not prepared as a Tiger by Jensen (no if's, but's or maybe's!!!). Is that definitive enough??
Robin O'Dell
Tiger MK 1a
ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE

0neoffive
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:23 am

Tipine/Alger

Post by 0neoffive » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:56 am

One of the services we provide is making those little clips that shim the GT interior door panels to proper flush. We send them out with a rental aligning jig and never ask if the owner is replacing a damaged Tiger's door with an available Alpine or (heavens no!) faking a conversion. . . . .

meadowhog
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Post by meadowhog » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:03 am

gtsmrt wrote:
Red Race Tiger wrote:It's not that i cant spell, i just dont check it before i post it....Doh!!


No i will keep asking this qusestion until i get a definative answer.


If as been stated you can use doors bonnet and boot from an Alpine and it's still a Tiger, if you cut a Tiger in half and glue an Alpine back end on and it's Still a Tiger which is an Alpine underneath anyway regardless.... so

Why cant a Tiger be saved by a shell change? You can use as much of the Alpine shell and panels AS LONG as it's NOT the whole shell??

That's just soppy. I'm sorry but it is. Soppy.
Are you serious or are you pulling my leg?

Seeing as doors, bonnets and boots are common to both models, does that clear up that side. In regards to the MkII with the Alpine rear that is supposed to be TACed (and I'm yet to see), if the body has passed it has obviously provided the inspectors enough information/evidence to prove that it is indeed an original Tiger.

The last part of your question, I shouldn't even bother, but it is plainly obvious that an Alpine body shell was not prepared as a Tiger by Jensen (no if's, but's or maybe's!!!). Is that definitive enough??
Hi Robin good to see you back with lots of energy.

Now you state that as doors bonnets a boots are in common, there is no reason to carry that argument through to other parts such as 90% of a Tiger. A boot floor is 97% Alpine, a door is 101% Alpine etc. I now see you secretly agreeing with the save the Tiger cause.

I just posted a FYI Alpine V8 message and it is just a FYI. However I keep wondering what had happened to the Tiger for this to happen to it. Now if there were guidlines for reshelling surley we wouldnt have lost this car. Now, It may well end up being passed off as a Tiger in years to come.

Reshelling (with disclosure) has to be a good thing

gtsmrt
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Post by gtsmrt » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:05 am

meadowhog wrote:
gtsmrt wrote:
Red Race Tiger wrote:It's not that i cant spell, i just dont check it before i post it....Doh!!


No i will keep asking this qusestion until i get a definative answer.


If as been stated you can use doors bonnet and boot from an Alpine and it's still a Tiger, if you cut a Tiger in half and glue an Alpine back end on and it's Still a Tiger which is an Alpine underneath anyway regardless.... so

Why cant a Tiger be saved by a shell change? You can use as much of the Alpine shell and panels AS LONG as it's NOT the whole shell??

That's just soppy. I'm sorry but it is. Soppy.
Are you serious or are you pulling my leg?

Seeing as doors, bonnets and boots are common to both models, does that clear up that side. In regards to the MkII with the Alpine rear that is supposed to be TACed (and I'm yet to see), if the body has passed it has obviously provided the inspectors enough information/evidence to prove that it is indeed an original Tiger.

The last part of your question, I shouldn't even bother, but it is plainly obvious that an Alpine body shell was not prepared as a Tiger by Jensen (no if's, but's or maybe's!!!). Is that definitive enough??
Hi Robin good to see you back with lots of energy.

Now you state that as doors bonnets a boots are in common, there is no reason to carry that argument through to other parts such as 90% of a Tiger. A boot floor is 97% Alpine, a door is 101% Alpine etc. I now see you secretly agreeing with the save the Tiger cause.

I just posted a FYI Alpine V8 message and it is just a FYI. However I keep wondering what had happened to the Tiger for this to happen to it. Now if there were guidlines for reshelling surley we wouldnt have lost this car. Now, It may well end up being passed off as a Tiger in years to come.

Reshelling (with disclosure) has to be a good thing
Yeah, yeah we all know what is common between the two models and I was making reference to RRT's question. I have never been against re-shelling whether it's an Alpine or a Tiger. If it has to happen, so be it (unfortunately though we will loose cars through accident or rust). What myself and others have been so energetic about is don't label it a Tiger if it's not. It's about FULL DISCLOSURE!! If it's a nice car, people will see it for that and not have to hide anything about it.

I really don't know why I have come back to this post, I just feel like we're going round in circles again... I must be a glutton for punishment. :?
Robin O'Dell
Tiger MK 1a
ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE

Red Race Tiger

Post by Red Race Tiger » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:15 am

I think the facts are this Robin,

If someone wants to invest time and money into a rebuild/restore of a rusted hulk of a Tiger they should be allowed to do so with a rustfree donor shell without this looking down the nose thing of it's an ALGER.

A Tiger re-shelled with an suitably modified Alpine shell is a Tiger, Sorry if that ruffles feathers but thats a fact. The Tiger is an iconic 60's sports car but underneath it's skin is another, The ALPINE

No one in their right mind will let a Tiger rot away these day's just because Tiger shells are not available, they never have been available, even whan new.

Reshelling these cars has gone on since time began, it's nothing new. Years ago Tigers were inexpensive and somewhat over looked. Now not so and prices have risen which is the crux of all this, those with original cars are sitting on a few quid trying to save the breed and pointing fingers at the less fortunate.

I'd like to know just how many re-shells were carried out during the 60's 70's 80's to the present day and know one even know's.....or cares?

Not once have i ever said anything other than full disclosure, declare it. If it's been done with enough flare the car will stand on it's own merit's anyway.

I read on another forum from another well known poster that in his opinion only genuine Tigers should be allowed "TO SHOW" and that the reshelled ALGER people should park at the bottom end of the field.....anywhere but with OUR genuine cars :?:

It's all a bit childish really

meadowhog
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Post by meadowhog » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:17 pm

So does that mean that we 'all' agree thata reshell is acceptable to be called a Tiger as long as its disclosed as a Reshell (not an Alger). This should be categorised as a reshell and carried out to a certain standard.

What I dont want is these flippin Algers mascerading as Tigers :lol: What I mean is there are cars that are literly Alpines with V8s bunged in them and a Tiger id nailed to the bulkhead. Theres a nice SIII in Mexico on youtube with a V8.

The Alpine v8 I just posted doesnt have a Tiger id so as far as Im concerned it cant be a Tiger. If we are moving on, what does a reshell need, to be considered a 'Tiger Reshell'

Red Race Tiger

Post by Red Race Tiger » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:29 pm

100% agree with that statement.

If it's a Tiger reshelled from one rotten body into a rustfree shell and carries over all the Tigerised item's from the donor? then it's a reshelled Tiger and should be catagorised as such with full disclosure. Carrying Tiger Vin And Jal

Although the body may NOT have passed down the Jenson line the rest of the car did.

And as so many original Tigers carry non original parts it should also apply to a reshell.

What it would have to have in my mind is 100% or as near to it in place what Jenson carried out sheet metal wise.
A recognised set of standard identifiers could be set in place by the STOC for a bodyshell to qualify.
And carried out to a recognised standard, no two halves brazed together for sure :idea:

Anything other than the above is an Alpine with a V8 an Alger i guess. :?:

gtsmrt
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Post by gtsmrt » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:25 am

So tell me guys, what will happen if you got your way and re-shells are common practice. What will happen with all those damaged or rusted beyond repair Tiger's lost through the ages? What follow on effect will that have on our original Jensen built Tigers?
Robin O'Dell
Tiger MK 1a
ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE

Red Race Tiger

Post by Red Race Tiger » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:55 pm

Robin,

None, no affect at all.

If it were to be done on a catagorised basis "Your" Jenson built car would be at the top of the tree as Cat 1 No need to worry there.....
Cat 2 Original Jenson built car, Restored/Heavily Repaired
And the re-bodied in say Cat 3 Original Tiger carrying Tiger Vin + Jal with relacement body, Reshelled with disclosure.


Simple's.

gtsmrt
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Post by gtsmrt » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:17 pm

I don't beleive there will be no follow on by allowing re-bodies. You know what I beleive the categories should be from a previous post of mine. If your legislation with the DVLA gets accepted, I think you'll see a follow on. :(
Robin O'Dell
Tiger MK 1a
ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE

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