Tiger/Alpine re-shelling discussion thread.

Post general questions relating to Tigers
Mal
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Post by Mal » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:26 am

meadowhog wrote:Cut off the pure tiger panels (which isnt much) and what are you left with? An Alpine shell with few dents and 25ish holes. Ow and of course some emotional attachment, in some cases lots.

I reckon it would take one person 8 hours to fit and modify. Less than half that if there were two.
You'r right , but unless they are working at Jensens in the early 60's it ain't a Tiger.

If Carol Shelby wants to start converting Alpines, they ain't Tigers. :wink:
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Red Race Tiger

Post by Red Race Tiger » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:51 am

Are yes but there lies another tale.


Shelby himself made continuation GT350 convertables from base model bodies.

Hardly original GT 350's but thay are accepted as such.

He's also done continuation Cobra's in fibreglass? carbon, and used Kirkham's also. none built by AC at Thames Ditton.

Shelby's participation was minimal, along with Ken miles there input was purely a feasibility study and once Humber Road took the project over it was a Rootes/Jenson designed vehicle built on a subcontractors assy line.


So i guess that as "Rootes" as a company has long gone no one person can really give a definative answer to this question. As the Manufacturer of the Alpine/Tiger it would be "the company" alone who could sanction this reshelling issue.....or not?

I wonder if the present Lord Rootes could be approached for an opinion on this subject :?:

Ash
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Post by Ash » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:26 pm

My E Type had a brand new body from Martin Robeys and never went down the line at Jaguars. It was still an E Type and sold for top money. No one in any of the Jag clubs viewed it as a fake and most wished their cars had such a good shell :)

Red Race Tiger

Post by Red Race Tiger » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:07 pm

Nuffin ronge wiv my spealling..... :wink:

Yet another fantastic archieve shot from your years of hoarding fella.

martin172
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Post by martin172 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:38 pm

Ash wrote:My E Type had a brand new body from Martin Robeys and never went down the line at Jaguars. It was still an E Type and sold for top money. No one in any of the Jag clubs viewed it as a fake and most wished their cars had such a good shell :)
You had a E-type too? :shock:

Series 1?, fixed head?, 3.8?, flat floor? Red, gunmetal?

michael-king
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Post by michael-king » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:01 am

Ash wrote:My E Type had a brand new body from Martin Robeys and never went down the line at Jaguars. It was still an E Type and sold for top money. No one in any of the Jag clubs viewed it as a fake and most wished their cars had such a good shell :)
Ash your example has been covered in regards to heritage sheels for MGB's etc... Your shell is BRAND NEW.. it has no history, no stroies, no previous owner.. NO OTHER VIN. That is why its legal and why Jag people accept that the car has the VIN off your old e type.

The reason it doesnt hurt value is that you disclose it.. and people want to buy what is essentialy a new E-type.. that works fine for a car like that.. if someone made correct new Tiger shells there would be a line for them.. and everyone using one would proudly tell people its a resheell using a new body as they know its straight, no rust no histroy etc...

Where this doesnt work is with cars where the shell has a special history, race cars, famously owned cars etc.. a point in case.. about the only legit reshelled tiger.. the works re-shelled rally car doesnt seem to be as valued as the cars that werent reshelled as the important results were achieved with the shell that was destroyed.
Michael King
63 Alpine SII - 65 Alpine SIVGT
65 Tiger MKI - 66 Tiger MKIA
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michael-king
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Post by michael-king » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:10 am

Red Race Tiger wrote:Are yes but there lies another tale.


Shelby himself made continuation GT350 convertables from base model bodies.

Hardly original GT 350's but thay are accepted as such.

He's also done continuation Cobra's in fibreglass? carbon, and used Kirkham's also. none built by AC at Thames Ditton.

Shelby's participation was minimal, along with Ken miles there input was purely a feasibility study and once Humber Road took the project over it was a Rootes/Jenson designed vehicle built on a subcontractors assy line.


So i guess that as "Rootes" as a company has long gone no one person can really give a definative answer to this question. As the Manufacturer of the Alpine/Tiger it would be "the company" alone who could sanction this reshelling issue.....or not?

I wonder if the present Lord Rootes could be approached for an opinion on this subject :?:
I think you will find that Mal was using a hint of sarcasm there withthe shelby comment..

as for your other commenst regarding shelby you obvously have a very closed and limited exposure to the higher end classic car world.

Yes shelby makes continuation cars.. but nobody tries to pass them off as original 60's ones. In the past people tried to "fake" legitimate cobras, same goes with GT40's and D'types even using DONOR PARTS from original cars.. much the same as what you would do with a Alipne conversion... when found out that these people had actually rebodied, re-created these cars they were immediatly outed and done for fraud.. much in the way you whined, kicjed and continue to scream about someone recreating your fathers car... because IT WAS NOT THAT CAR.

Aston MArtin sanctioned and biult DB$GTZ's in the 80's, Audi have got C&G in the Uk to build uto union GP cars.. these are exact tool room copies of the orignal cars, sanctioned and supported by their manufacturers.. but they are STILL NOT ORIGINAL CARS and are not tried to be passed off as such.

There are lots of people out there who have tried to pass off tool room copies of bugattis, GT40's, D'types the list goes on.. once you start assigning VIN's off orginal cars you are just trying to commit fraud.

And Paul, if you have managed to read and comprehend this far... amswer this as i proposed earlier:

If somone get s a nice rust free tiger shell, welds the alpine tunnel, braces and radiator support panel in, swaps in an alpine driveline and then puts the alpines VIN and SAL tags on it.. is the car an Alpine or a Tiger?
Michael King
63 Alpine SII - 65 Alpine SIVGT
65 Tiger MKI - 66 Tiger MKIA
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Post by Red Race Tiger » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:01 am

Micheal King,

At the begining of this thread i asked that my fathers car be kept seperate from this discussion, as at some point in the future the full story of his ex works car should be told.

So now i'm whining kicking and screaming am i ? Really?

My father very almost lost his life in that accident and spent the next 9 years in hospital as a result of it. Other than his personal loss and continued suffering i wouldn't have given a flying figg about the car, but because he did suffer so much and that the car was scrapped by my family there was no way i was ever going to see anyone gain from his misfortune.

By bringing that spiteful comment to this topic for me has just lost you any respect and credibility that i may have had. And there wasn't alot to begin with to be honest, you always have too much to say and you've way crossed the line there.

Had AHP 295B survived ie sold on after the accident i'd say re-shell that also, However of because it was known to have been scrapped in 1972 and the log book coned away from at that time a very deminished and vulnerable man in 1983 makes the whole scenario all the more sickening.

I'm broad shouldered enough to state my views on this forum and take the flack on the chin, bring it on, others chose to hide behind an alias. but when it's aimed at my father's car and my battle to do the right thing then that's another matter.

You stick with your TAC and your high & mighty attitude as we clearly have nothing further to say.



Shame on you. :( :(

michael-king
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Post by michael-king » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:37 am

Red Race Tiger wrote:Micheal King,

At the begining of this thread i asked that my fathers car be kept seperate from this discussion, as at some point in the future the full story of his ex works car should be told.

So now i'm whining kicking and screaming am i ? Really?

My father very almost lost his life in that accident and spent the next 9 years in hospital as a result of it. Other than his personal loss and continued suffering i wouldn't have given a flying figg about the car, but because he did suffer so much and that the car was scrapped by my family there was no way i was ever going to see anyone gain from his misfortune.

By bringing that spiteful comment to this topic for me has just lost you any respect and credibility that i may have had. And there wasn't alot to begin with to be honest, you always have too much to say and you've way crossed the line there.

Had AHP 295B survived ie sold on after the accident i'd say re-shell that also, However of because it was known to have been scrapped in 1972 and the log book coned away from at that time a very deminished and vulnerable man in 1983 makes the whole scenario all the more sickening.

I'm broad shouldered enough to state my views on this forum and take the flack on the chin, bring it on, others chose to hide behind an alias. but when it's aimed at my father's car and my battle to do the right thing then that's another matter.

You stick with your TAC and your high & mighty attitude as we clearly have nothing further to say.



Shame on you. :( :(
Paul,

You made you moral boundaries very clear last year when the moderators had to edit your abbusive posts and shallow racist views.

You have made it clear people are not allowed to have a different opinon to you.. you are always right and apparently geographical location gives you even more credability...

i'd say shame on you.. but you bring enough to yourself..

One mans tiger is another mans conversion.... it's obvous there is no middle ground with you.. keep switching vins and justifying it however you want...
Michael King
63 Alpine SII - 65 Alpine SIVGT
65 Tiger MKI - 66 Tiger MKIA
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gvickery
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Post by gvickery » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:52 pm

Can we stop all this verbal slapping and cut out all the nagging self justification please. Yeah, and don't make things so flipping personal.
No names no pack drill but the censor will go to work if there is one more personal attack or deliberate wind-up spotted.

If you have made your point work it or leave it !!
There are no debate winners or losers here just different points of view.

Graham
STOC Editor

garyv8tiger
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Post by garyv8tiger » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:48 pm

well after 35 pages it looks like everyone is still as divided as we were at the start. or did anyone change there views ?

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gvickery
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Post by gvickery » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:48 am

Had to delete several posts today to keep this thread half decent.
Trying to have the last word doesn't make your point valid

Graham
STOC Editor

gtsmrt
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Post by gtsmrt » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:18 am

gvickery wrote:Had to delete several posts today to keep this thread half decent.
Trying to have the last word doesn't make your point valid

Graham
STOC Editor
Point taken, but the contentious posts are still shown and the ability to delete posts also helps. Probably just like this one!! :lol:
Robin O'Dell
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ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE AS DAD WOULD HAVE

meadowhog
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Post by meadowhog » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:02 pm

If somone get s a nice rust free tiger shell, welds the alpine tunnel, braces and radiator support panel in, swaps in an alpine driveline and then puts the alpines VIN and SAL tags on it.. is the car an Alpine or a Tiger?

100% Alpine obviously.

meadowhog
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Post by meadowhog » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:04 pm

michael-king wrote:
If somone get s a nice rust free tiger shell, welds the alpine tunnel, braces and radiator support panel in, swaps in an alpine driveline and then puts the alpines VIN and SAL tags on it.. is the car an Alpine or a Tiger?
100% Alpine obviously

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