TAC - Tiger/Alpine re-shelling discussion thread.

garyv8tiger · Post by **garyv8tiger** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:24 am

Tim wrote:as someone who has bought a Tiger in the last year, I can tell you that the information required to 'investigate the car' is extremely hard, if not nigh on impossible to get hold of.

I can go on the internet to get the credentials of a genuine Mini Cooper or Mk1 Escort Mexico, not so with a Tiger. As a new comer to the Tiger scene it is extremely frustrating! A simple certificate from a recognised body would dispel all the doubts.

there is a lot of stuff the club dont want us to know .if the jenson info was posted on the net it would be easier to verify cars .but then this could cause other problems i suppose .

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:57 am

Easy to verify or easy to copy Gary?? It may be frustrating to some not being public knowledge, but for me I am happy for it being closely guarded. There is a big enough problem with fakes without handing over the blueprints so to speak.

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:17 pm

That's it in a nushell.

Joe Bloggs wants a Tiger and doesn't know what it real and what is a fake or reshell and he wants a Jensen shelled Tiger.
There are Tiger experts out there who could come along and have a look but it's not always that simple is it.
Circumstances can conspire against you especially if you have seen "the car for you" and you're scared that it may go before you get a chance to see it.
If all the Jensen Tigers in the Country had been TACd, this is all eliminated.

Admittedly, it isn't going to change overnight, but in theory, in a few years time there shouldn't be as many or any stories of people buying Tigers that were not what they seemed.

There will be losers unfortunately like the guys who have been conned and that is tragically sad but you've got to draw the line somewhere.

Ohno, I gone off on one again.

meadowhog · Post by **meadowhog** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:18 pm

gtsmrt wrote:
Well fancy that You going soft? Don't think I am going to change my mind any time soon. The DVLA proposal I find to be very general and doesn't cover the the differences between the two models. We'll just have to wait and see there. The TAC shouldn't be just for prospective buyers, that is where all the clubs need to help out new buyers. It is also there for a bit of peace of mind for the owner.

Hi Robin

I agree with your thoughts on having TAC to identify authentic Tigers. Sorry I didnt mean to imply TAC is only for prospective buyers, I was making the point that Graham was only getting ripped off people post purchase because they hadnt done their homework.

I just think it would be good idea to extend the criteria to include reshells. Im not saying they would be regarded as original tigers but authenticated as reshells. Thsi I hope would dismiss the 'you're in-you're out' fear. The USA test fee would still apply so extra revenue, or should I say no loss would be made.

I also believe there should be the V8 conversion which should still be classed non-Tiger. These cars would have failed to reach a recognised standard.

As Tim has stated he would like to see what the criteria is, to be classed a Tiger. As I have said before I would love to see a published list of the points to check. Maybe Norman as the undisputed expert would like to comment. For a starter what would be acceptable material to publish to help new and exhisting owners investigate the authenticity of the car, and made a 'sticky'. There is info out there but I cant find it all in one place. Tim would you like that?-new thread?? Maybe also, as reshells may become legally Tigers in the UK, what the criteria would/should be to be classified as such.

Especially now with the new DVLA rules on the table, I really do believe that if there were separate classifications, descriptions of whats required to meet each and this info made easy to find, it would discourage fraud, encourage honesty, help buyers identify their purchase and help prevent restorers from creating V8 conversions when it could be a reshell or better. If the USA had a law saying reshells are legal I would like to kmow what Norman would have done? That even goes for you Robin.

PS. I had a DAX Cobra with a 289 but never saw it as anything other than a kit car. A friend of mine had a Ferrari Daytona replica that was given permission by Ferrari to don authentic badges as it was that good. The only give away from the outside, and I found it, was the tax disc said Jaguar. It was a real nice car but still seen as nothing but a Kit.

garyv8tiger · Post by **garyv8tiger** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:01 pm

and how do we get over the problem of a car being reshelled after it has been tac ed

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:20 pm

Hi Meadowhog,

That was good of you to share your past experience with your kit car. My question to you then as an ex-kit car owner who only saw it as such, why do you want to see Alpine conversions labelled as Tiger's? I'm not trying to make you dislike me all over again, just wondering what has changed since your kit car.

Regards, Robin.

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:38 pm

garyv8tiger wrote:and how do we get over the problem of a car being reshelled after it has been tac ed

If it is left to the point of disrepair, TAC would surely be void on that Tiger. I also believe that the TAC stickers cannot be easily removed without damaging them.

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:40 pm

It's an interesting point.
Considering the money involved, people will go to great lenghts and someone could have a fake sticker made.

Are TAC certified cars retested from time to time?

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:02 pm

Interesting point Martin, but the rebody would soon show up as a fake. Seeing the sticker shouldn't be the only confirmation though, people should still seek help if purchasing a Tiger and are unaware of what to look for. As far as I am aware, the TAC certified cars are not retested.

meadowhog · Post by **meadowhog** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:44 pm

gtsmrt wrote:Hi Meadowhog,

That was good of you to share your past experience with your kit car. My question to you then as an ex-kit car owner who only saw it as such, why do you want to see Alpine conversions labelled as Tiger's? I'm not trying to make you dislike me all over again, just wondering what has changed since your kit car.

Regards, Robin.

Im not

garyv8tiger · Post by **garyv8tiger** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:51 pm

there is a really easy scam here .

garyv8tiger · Post by **garyv8tiger** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:52 pm

gtsmrt wrote:Interesting point Martin, but the rebody would soon show up as a fake. Seeing the sticker shouldn't be the only confirmation though, people should still seek help if purchasing a Tiger and are unaware of what to look for. As far as I am aware, the TAC certified cars are not retested.

yes but too late if someone has already bought it

Post by **gvickery** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:56 pm

Just to tidy up that bit of confusion by Rob that Norm Miller picked up.

Back in 2004 Norman visited England for our 40th Anniversary celebrations along with two Australian 'TAC' inspectors - Peter Thompson and Ken Jacobs. We invited Norm and his 'team' to carry out inspections of early cars arriving for the National - until time and available certificates ran out. That morning the following Sunbeam Tigers were inspected and received TAC Certification:

TAC No VIN No------------Registration No
# 560: B9473654 HRO - 5005 UZ
# 601: B9472953 HRO - MDA 523 (from Sweden)
# 602: B9472821 HRO - CNN 547C
# 603: B9472157 HRO - SME 731F
# 604: B382000855 LRX - ZH 2915 (from Switzerland)
# 605: B9473574 HRO - EYA 720C
# 606: B9472163 HRO - EKL 219C
# 607: B9473489 HRO - MVG 63C
# 608: B9473440 HRO - JBB 788D
# 609: B9473646 LRX - PAN 656 (from Sweden)

This batch were the first & last Tigers to be TAC'd in Europe.

Graham
STOC Editor

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:58 pm

garyv8tiger wrote:
gtsmrt wrote:Interesting point Martin, but the rebody would soon show up as a fake. Seeing the sticker shouldn't be the only confirmation though, people should still seek help if purchasing a Tiger and are unaware of what to look for. As far as I am aware, the TAC certified cars are not retested.
yes but too late if someone has already bought it

Hi Gary,

There is always the risk I guess. That is why I said, purchasing the Tiger based upon the sticker should not be the only confirmation of an original Tiger. Homework needs to be done or seek out someone that knows whats to look for. I'm sure someone will try to scam the TAC system, but the system is yet to be fooled.

Regards, Robin.

garyv8tiger · Post by **garyv8tiger** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:56 pm

i have a theory that the tac system if used in the way i,m thinking could confirm a reshell as a genuine tiger .
just like ringing .i wouldnt trust a tac certificate if i was buying a car .

sunbeamtiger.co.uk

TAC - Tiger/Alpine re-shelling discussion thread.

Re: Tac

Re: Tac

Re: Tac