TAC - Tiger/Alpine re-shelling discussion thread.

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:30 pm

lovejoy wrote:I wonder if this guy is reading this thread with interest ... ?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C273293
as far as I am concerned, this is STILL a Tiger, despite the reshell....
what do you all think ?

That was green not too long ago.

Robert Diehl · Post by **Robert Diehl** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:45 pm

If we’re voting, I cast mine for the unbelievable “Simple” code system. Assuming STOC adoption, which
of the acronyms would be assigned to this fabulous “preservation” effort?

Tiger (FC) - Factory car - Jensen built chassis, factory modified Tiger elements - VIN & JAL present
Tiger (FRB) - Factory re-bodied car - VIN & JAL present
Tiger (RBC) - re-bodied car, matching Tiger components - VIN & JAL present
Tiger (ARB) - re-bodied car, none matching Tiger components - VIN & JAL present
Tiger (RC) - replica Tiger - re-bodied, none matching Tiger components - no VIN & JAL present (may even have an Alpine VIN)

Bob

Red Race Tiger · Post by **Red Race Tiger** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:00 pm

Oh look everyone,

It's William Syson back for another snipe....

David, this car would be classed as Catagory 2, heavily restored, restored or re-bodied.

Not dissimilar to your own car.

Go away

Mal · Post by **Mal** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:23 pm

meadowhog wrote

Ive seen cars where the chasis has been cut out bit by bit and replaced after repair. It becomes very difficult if not impossible to distinguish between that car and one where an Alpine shell has been used and Tiger parts grafted in. Beside it couldnt really be classed as a complete if the spots are drilled out and replaced using mig.

I do admit this is extreme but an answer would give clarity to a grey area. Ive restored a couple of Alpines and a couple of Tigers so I'm not coming from a nieve point of view.

This is how I see it

There are always going to be the fuzzy areas. But I don't think repairing a genuine car is one.
I am not sure what you mean by chassis repairs as a monocoque body has no real chassis, just sort of sub frames that are part of the body.

If a car needs panel replacment after accident or rust removel it is still that car. If the repairs are done properly then there is no problem. Having to drill out the factory spot welds is just part of the process.

If an Alpine needs major body repairs, after they have been completed the car is still an Alpine, so a Tiger will still be a Tiger no matter if the replacement panels have been made up or come from another car.

A body restoration is not a rebody.

Cheers Mal

meadowhog · Post by **meadowhog** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:56 pm

Hi Mal

I mostly agree, but for me the problem arises when trying to check if a cars a restoration or a reshell. However I get the feeling the consensus is swinging toward not differentiating between the two. For now identifying categories is enough.

Sorry the chasis term was coined from an earlier page. I meant the two rails which at the front hold the jack points and end at the centre outrigger.

Cheers
Simon

Robert Diehl · Post by **Robert Diehl** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:22 pm

Red Race Tiger wrote:Oh look everyone,

It's William Syson back for another snipe....

David, this car would be classed as Catagory 2, heavily restored, restored or re-bodied.

Not dissimilar to your own car.

Go away

Seems 'Red Race Tiger' sees nothing but ghosts. Here’s my "project". What do you say...

Tiger (RC) - replica Tiger - re-bodied, none matching Tiger components - no VIN & JAL present (may even have an Alpine VIN)

Bob

michael-king · Post by **michael-king** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:14 am

Red Race Tiger wrote:I cant see WHY there cannot be a recognised standard to allow a rebodied car carrying Tiger VIN and JAl over to save a car, using the same shell that the car de-rived from in the first place, it's not rocket science.

Paul,

I still dont get how you say you are "saving" a Tiger.. the car you are apparently saving is GONE.. you are modifying an alpine and welding bits of a scrapped car into it.. then switching the identification over and saying its that car... no dice.

Look at it from an alpine enthusiasts..you are butchering a perfectly good alpine to make it an ill handling hot rod.

Lets put the shoe on the other foot.. an alpine owner has a SIV they love.. it gets crashed heavily.. they find a nice rust free tiger shell, they remove the tiger tunnel, installa abttery box and drop in the alpine cross member and steering and the 1592 and 4 speed with rootes rear end.. they then switch the VIN and SAL tags over.. is the car an alpine?

I think few people here have issues with conversions, reshells. but lots seem to have issues with switching VIN's... and you imply that switching a VIn SAVES a car??? all it does is saves a registration number and a couple of small metal plates with numbers.

Red Race Tiger · Post by **Red Race Tiger** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:52 am

Robert what you have there is an Alpine with a big whole in the floor fella, and a battery box

We all know that FRW 667C is a re-shell, what of it? Iv'e already said in my earlier post's that in my HUMBLE opinion Rootes never did make available a "SERVICE" repair bodyshell specificaly for the Tiger and that in period all that would have been available was an Alpine shell that you or i would have had to modify to Tiger spec. or throw the car away.

667C would be no different in this case and you are only attempting to slur this car, We all know it's a re-shell done decades ago so what's your point exactly

And Michael, c'mon mate why have an Alpine when you can have a Tiger, i have both but i'd sacrifice the Alpine for the Tiger....we all would.

Given the chioce who would let an iconic 60's V8 go for the sake of is lessor cousin. Not many.....

It may be something to do with cubic inches, there's 10,000's of Alpine left, same cant be said for the Tiger......

Red Race Tiger · Post by **Red Race Tiger** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:15 am

Micheal,

The car may not be gone at all, as per the case that started this topic B947.....

That car COULD be saved if anyone was mad enough to attempt it, but why bother

Hour's and hour's of chasing rot to the point that most of the underside is on the workshop floor in the form of rust. WHY?

I wouldn't want a car like that, not a chance would i, only for the rot to come back through in month's or years to come.

If a car (Tiger) is to be saved it has to be viable to do so, and if re-shelling is viable and cost effective do it.

I have worked on and repaired classic's for other's in the past (Non Tiger) where iv'e carried out some really nice welding and fabrication work that wouldn't be attempted elsewhere but in the back of my mind i'm left with the thought that yes what iv'e done is 100% but the rot continues and you cant stop it. And for that reason personally rustfree re-shells are a no brainer.

Like iv'e said before, a bodyshell is a part with a part number, no different to a spark plug. an air filter or a panel. It's just a bigger panel and can also be changed.

Robert Diehl · Post by **Robert Diehl** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:14 am

Red Race Tiger wrote:in my HUMBLE opinion Rootes never did make available a "SERVICE" repair bodyshell specificaly for the Tiger

Some might argue they wasted lots of ink listing parts you couldn’t order…

I ask you. What’s Mr. Harper sitting on then? An exception that proves the rule!...

Bob

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:30 am

lovejoy wrote:I wonder if this guy is reading this thread with interest ... ?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C273293
as far as I am concerned, this is STILL a Tiger, despite the reshell....
what do you all think ?

What do I think... Looks like a very nicely prepared V8 Series 5 Alpine conversion that is advertised incorrectly and grossly over-priced.

65beam · Post by **65beam** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:31 am

michael,
it wasn't the series 4. it was the series 5 that was rebodied in the MK2 tiger shell. that was in 1995. we cut up the series 3 GT to repair the series 4.[/img]

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:37 am

Tim wrote:Well, Tiger or not, it's certainly no longer 'ONE OF THE LAST 5 TIGERS TO LEAVE JENSON ON 27/6/1967 LAST DAY OF PRODUCTION' is it? It never saw the Jenson factory.

Thanks Tim, my sentiments exactly. It's now an Alpine with the ID of one of the last 5 Tigers to leave Jensen.

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:44 am

Hi,

For those who are are struggling with the definition of what denotes an authentic Tiger, why, until you reach your own criteria can't you use the TAC criteria? What is it about the TAC that doesn't satisfy people?

Regards, Robin.

Red Race Tiger · Post by **Red Race Tiger** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:57 pm

I'm not struggling with the TAC definition of an authentic Tiger, a re-shelled Tiger directly from one rusted shell into a suitably modified shell is still the same car, but with a replacement part ie the body.

Sadly TAC has no scope, it's either black or white, Tiger or Alger. No scope for anything else.

TAC would confirm a rusted/damaged Tiger bodyshell as in the "Worst Tiger" thread as a Tiger, what use is that?

But it wouldn't recognise that same car if it had had £10,000's invested into it with a re-body and was a better car for it. The opposite, it would have it's TAC voided.

For being inflexible that's my problem with TAC.

And as for Bob's posted image of Mr Harper sitting on a Tiger shell, of course this is a Tiger shell, it's awaiting seam welding in the competition's worshop at Humber road,proberbly either 667/668 and obviously they'd have access to them direct from pressed steel . But i still find it hard to believe that there ever was a service body available to the general public and , and if there was they soon ran out once Crysler took over.

You couldn't buy a Tiger here in the UK, how on earth would you get a bodyshell

This re-shelling thing is nothing new, it's gone on for decades to the present day, i've posted elsewhere on this forum that as a younger fella i was a Ford Technician and personally re-shelled numerous Ford vehicle's, van's and truck cab changes. The bodies would arrive painted from the bodyshop and allocated 40,50,60 hour's for the re-shell. On completion the owner would collect the vehicle leaving the original damaged shell out in the compound for disposal. Perfectly legal....

Having had first hand experience of "Re-Bodying" - Re-Shelling" and how common place it was back then i really do think that there should be scope for a closer look at this subject.

TAC may well be fine for the U S, Australia and NZ etc but maybe as a British car in Britian it could possibly be done with a little more finese, a little less black and white or finger pointing.