TAC - Tiger/Alpine re-shelling discussion thread.

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:08 pm

Any system can be beaten if someone wants to enough.

Are TAC stickers a quite complicated, hologramed maybe or just a sticker?

michael-king · Post by **michael-king** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:25 am

martin172 wrote:Any system can be beaten if someone wants to enough.

Are TAC stickers a quite complicated, hologramed maybe or just a sticker?

Of course any system can be beaten with enough knowledge/time and money.. but why go to all that effort to build a fake?

The TAC sticker is a single use sticker/applique, you cant remove them they will just shread... if you are imlying that you could recreate one.. well the TAC sticker has a unique number that is listed against the given VIN in the database so you cant just make up a TAC sticker. If you go to the Pacific tiger club they have a list of the cars TAC numbers and what VIN they are allocated to.

also you asked earlier if you need to get a car re-inspected if the car is restored again after TAC. If the sticker is removed the car's authentification is considered void and you have to re-inspect. As a side note i posted the full resto pics of my car on webshots in 2007 (the car was restored in 2003-04) Norm promptly sent me an email to tell me to get the car re-inspected as i had voided the TAC as the body had been dipped and that the sticker would now be gone. I had to explain to him that the photos were of the resto and that the car was inspected after its rebuild... despite this he still made me send him a current photo of the TAC sticker to confirm it... he is on the ball and doesnt just take peoples word for things.

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:15 am

Michael,

The reason I asked about the sticker and it's complexity was because I was curious about whether it would be easy for someone to replicate it and more importantly it's use as a sign of authenticity.

What I mean by that is if it is impossible to remove to another shell without destroying it and it's complexity makes it impossible to replicate, then people can use it as an assuring sign of authenticity.

It's all well and good saying that all prospective buyers should get a car examined by someone in the know but as already said, life isn't always like that.
Dozens of variables could prevent that from being done and if the car is cheap or desireable someone may jump in to ensure they get it.

What I asked about the re-inspection was whether it is repeated every few years or so to keep it valid to prevent someone doing what I have mentioned in the paragraphs above.

Perhaps we could have some Tiger Smart Water made.

Oh, and the answer to your first question is ofcourse....money.

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:21 am

martin172 wrote:It's all well and good saying that all prospective buyers should get a car examined by someone in the know but as already said, life isn't always like that.
Dozens of variables could prevent that from being done and if the car is cheap or desireable someone may jump in to ensure they get it.

All I can say then Martin is let the buyer beware!! The words cheap, desirable and get in quick ring alarm bells for me. For an investment like that, it's worth taking your time to investigate.

Regards, Robin.

65beam · Post by **65beam** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:53 am

the best tool to remove a tac sticker might be a piece of duct tape. may not destroy it.

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:46 am

gtsmrt wrote:
martin172 wrote:It's all well and good saying that all prospective buyers should get a car examined by someone in the know but as already said, life isn't always like that.
Dozens of variables could prevent that from being done and if the car is cheap or desireable someone may jump in to ensure they get it.
All I can say then Martin is let the buy beware!! The words cheap, desirable and get in quick ring alarm bells for me. For an investment like that, it's worth taking your time to investigate.

Regards, Robin.

It does happen though. Remember this?

http://sunbeamtiger.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... ight=#4083
Sold for £12K iirc.

When someone is offered a car a almost half price, they will be tempted into not being cautious.
Situations like this will come along.

I think we need to try to make the system tamper proof so that the bad guys can't turn it into a tool they can use to give their cars authenticity that they don't have.

garyv8tiger · Post by **garyv8tiger** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:01 am

i think the sticker could be copied easy enough .and maybe even removed .you would still have the certificate .
i think the tac would be more peace of mind for a current owner more than a buyer .
there isnt anything that cant be fiddled these days .

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:28 am

garyv8tiger wrote:i think the sticker could be copied easy enough .and maybe even removed .you would still have the certificate .
i think the tac would be more peace of mind for a current owner more than a buyer .
there isnt anything that cant be fiddled these days .

Agreed. In it's current state, the TAC system could be abused.

Maybe something like Datatag could be used. Seems reasonably cheap to do. Once in place, it could mean chopping up the shell to cross it over.

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:26 pm

I understand that the stickers can be duplicated and systems beaten, but I think you are under estimating the current system in place. The TAC system has been in place for some time now (1990's) and is yet to be compromised. The system has very strict controls and procedures in place to ensure its security. I just don't understand why so many are trying to discredit the system.

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:32 pm

I don't know if that is aimed at me but I'm not trying to discredit it.
Unless someone can tell me otherwise, the way I see it is the only thing stopping someone reshelling a TACed car is a sticker.

Someone with the know how could recreate Jensen's work so I'm just throwing ideas around about how we can make the system more difficult to beat.

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:48 pm

Hi Martin,

My response was just a general response to the last few posts and not aimed specifically at you. As you know a sticker will not stop anyone re-bodying a car or trying to pass off a fake as an original.

Regards, Robin.

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:54 pm

Oh, gotcha.

I think if we are to take up this system we should use the opportunity to improve it if possible and make it tough to beat.
The way i would do that is to examine the car, fit/attach a difficult or impossible to remove ID of some sort to make reshelling extremely difficult and have a retest a intervals.

garyv8tiger · Post by **garyv8tiger** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:39 pm

anything you can put on can be taken off.ringing cars has gone on for years .this is not really any different

gtsmrt · Post by **gtsmrt** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:01 am

martin172 wrote:Oh, gotcha.

I think if we are to take up this system we should use the opportunity to improve it if possible and make it tough to beat.
The way i would do that is to examine the car, fit/attach a difficult or impossible to remove ID of some sort to make reshelling extremely difficult and have a retest a intervals.

If all of you UK blokes can improve on it, go for it. I think the sticker was just the most cost effective and it does seem to work well.

martin172 · Post by **martin172** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:59 am

Hi Robin,
I'm just throwing ideas out there.
It's down to the head honchos to decide whether we try to improve the system or leave it as is.

I've had a quick root about on the 'net for ways of permanently IDing cars but I'm sure there are more and better ways out there.

I came across this

http://www.selectadna.co.uk/?gclid=CNzd ... tAoda2dE5Q

but it would involve carrying a microscope around when re-examining cars.

Personally I think that if people are being fleeced out of serious money, we should do our bit to try and prevent it.
Installing TAC is one and investigating if it can be beaten and rectifying that is another.