TAC - Tiger/Alpine re-shelling discussion thread.

[gtsmrt]

Weve moved on from whether a reshell is acceptable but would a front bulkhead including front chasis legs, wheel arches, top hats, kept as one unit and then planted into an Alpine shell be classed as a rebuild. None of the Jensen work would be un-done/re-done

If that much of the vehicle was damaged, why would you even consider repairing. What about the Jensen work to the X frame and rear body work.

[meadowhog]

It was agreed a while back that these parts are replaced quite normally as they rot so badly and if replaced would pass TAC. Im trying to get to point where we can agree that a car is still a resto rather than a reshell.

May be the question should be 'what parts can be replaced and still allow the car to be considered original and restored'.

[Red Race Tiger]

Seems to me that there is no agreement on anything,

There is two camps, those with the "Can Do" attitude who have the skills and ability to save a car with a re-shell carried out with the utmost care and attention to detail

And the other camp who say "Cant Do" "Must Not Do" and would prefere to see a rotten car just fade away.

So in response to that question if the purists get their way NO parts should be replaced, no Alpine Panels period, no bonnets boots doors sills scuttles clocks glass lights seats hardtops etc etc etc. Not a single item, because as has been continuously pointed out they are two completley Different Models

So Ok lets keep it that way, if a Tiger's accident damaged or rust rotten unless it can be proved without doubt that any replacement panel or part is "Tiger Specific" and went down the hollowed Jenson line then the car doesn't get repaired, unless a Tiger is used to repair a Tiger it isn't a Tiger. And that rule would have to apply to everyone. lets all live by those rules and see how long that lasts

Or do we/can we reach an concensus whereby if an Alpine can give up ALL it's panels ( INCLUDING ) a whole half car back end as in the TAC'd Mk2 why can't the same be reversed and all Tiger specific items be transfered into the Alpine shell.

Iv'e said this before who in their right mind would want to spend hours welding up a rot box (which is only holding back the innevitable, you can't stop rust) when you could re-shell into something that will last way far longer?

As long as it's been declared and out in the open i really can't and still can't see a problem, and as for these car's being halved in value? again given time values will rise.

We're lead to believe that the ex Alan Bedford yellow car is a Reshelled Tiger, a well known and very well built car, (Front cover of Retro Cars 2005) i dont think that car struggles with it's identity some how and it holds it's price very well too.

[gtsmrt]

May be the question should be 'what parts can be replaced and still allow the car to be considered original and restored'.

That question makes a lot more sense, but I think you will find there will still be some disagreements. I have never disagreed that the two models are very similar, but there are differences none the less. Any panels common to both models, I'm sure everyone will agree can be interchanged. It's the Tiger specific parts that are the important pieces. Unfortunately there will be the odd occasion where these parts will need to be replaced leaving no other option. Mal's Tiger is a perfect example during the restoration of his amazing Tiger. Areas the were rotted out professionally repaired with absolutely no question of what model it is.

[meadowhog]

Paul, what you just said was my next line, we agree on just about everything. Where Im going is, whats the difference between a resto and reshell. The categories fits well this, but whats needed is the description of each category.

A reshell is just that, all the Tiger parts cut out and fitted into an Alpine shell.

An Alpine V8 would be just that as certain parts, methods, id's will be missing.

Robin, I agree with you when you say there will differences in opinion. I would love for you to have a stab at whats acceptable to replace on a Tiger. The exhaust pass through on nearly all Tigers are rusted through and repaired, wings are Tiger exclusive if you count the holes for strips, but where would you draw the line. Paul, Gary and myself would probably go further than you but is that because we have a better understanding of the work? I would rather not suggest something for you to disagree with but when looking at No52 on Dales site theres not a lot left of that, that could be said to be Tiger originally.

Where would you draw the line?

[65beam]

when you still had panels available thru dealers you could not buy tiger specific wimgs. if one had to be replaced, the dealer only had alpine panels available. you had to drill the trim mounting holes to make it a tiger panel. the same applied to most replacement panels except for the tunnel and inner fender braces and a few minor tiger pieces. on a lot of tigers,the cutout pieces for the exhaust pass thrus have been found in the x frame. look behind the voltage regulator mount and you may find the captive nut for the alpine regulator still attached. just pushed back when the drill bit broke thru. i have some nos alpine fenders and i bet they fit a tiger.

[Red Race Tiger]

Robin,

No i'm sorry mate (And i know we've banged heads and made up) but NO.

You cant have your cake and eat it. If as you say Alpine's and Tiger's DO NOT share the same unibody then your point is made. If any parts derive from an Alpine (including panels) they must be left alone as they are from a different model

Ok, point accepted. So next time any of the Elite Purist mob bend a panel dont look down the "Alpine Alley"

Unless a front wing (Fender) doesn't already have the holes drilled for the side trim IT's an Alpine Only Part.....

Keep looking for that pre drilled Tiger fender.....your'll be an OAP before you find it

This is all just elitist tosh.

This isn't about re-shelling or the Do & Dont's, this is all about those sitting on genuine cars worrying if the well built/rebuilt car will affect the values of their own.....that's the long and the short of it.

If a recognised catagory was bought in to please most it would solve all this in house bickering at a stroke. Job done

[Red Race Tiger]

Meadowhog,

Try this.....

Catagory A, An unmolested original Jenson built Tiger with a known history, light restoration. Matching numbers.
Catagory B An original Jenson built Tiger having undergone part or full restoration, Matching numbers.
Catagory C A complete bodychange (Reshell) from one doner car to another shell (Alpine) carrying over specific laid down identifiers. Minimum matching Vin & Jal

Catagory D, Alpine V8's and other.


Two cars welded together an absolute No No & go straight in the skip

[meadowhog]

99% agree. I wouldnt bother with the D, 'other' would be Alpine. Im thinking a more detail of the differences and being specific about what panels can be changed

Its easy for us to say where we think a Tiger should be on a level of restoration. Getting our point across is another thing, as at present I assume theres nobody prepared to take on the challenge of disuading us, that has our background of skills and knowledge.

Im sure you must know a few? This is just a forum discussion but for any conclusions we all agree with to become legit, some body like STOC and hence Graham should have an input?? Im guessing Graham is staying out of it until there is a bit more movement.

[0neoffive]

Meadowhog,

Try this.....

Catagory A, An unmolested original Jenson built Tiger with a known history, light restoration. Matching numbers.
Catagory B An original Jenson built Tiger having undergone part or full restoration, Matching numbers.
Catagory C A complete bodychange (Reshell) from one doner car to another shell (Alpine) carrying over specific laid down identifiers. Minimum matching Vin & Jal

Catagory D, Alpine V8's and other.

An excellent approach; good going. Catagory D would probably create it's own debates among the also-rans, but then, what doesn't?

[garyv8tiger]

so my mk1 with all original californian panels would be cat b because it has had a full resto not a cat a . dosnt seem right although its a step in the right direction .
if i am right thinking this is all about new buyers being sold reshells without knowing would it not be easier to have a club database of reshelled .there are plenty of members with reshelled cars that are upfront about it .

[Red Race Tiger]

Gary,

No offence was intended with the Cat B. I only offered a possible approach.....not a final solution. That would have to be done by the STOC

Yes this approach would be a way for new potential buyers to the marque to know exactly what it is they are buying, and also to allow reshelling of a rotten Tiger to be done out in the open. Not as an Alger and something to be looked down on but as a re-bodied vehicle and judged on it's own merits.

Again provided it was done within a laid down set of Tiger only identifiers any new buyer would again know exactly what it was they were looking at.

To buy it would then be their choice Declared, transparent and clear.

And rust free.

[alpine5gt]

While this thread has been active again, my Mk1 is about to have its left front mudguard replaced. I have already replaced both right side mudguards and door. All replacements are from accident damage, not rust. It seems a shame to replace non rusted panels however I will keep them where possible. I have also been busy cleaning all removed parts in a electrolis vat. Then I retap all the threads as well.
When I am finished this Tiger will wear front mudguards from a alpine, 2 doors from an alpine, right rear mudguard from an alpine and a bonnet from a great supplier that will be a LAT fiberglass unit with scoop and vents.

However I will be very proud of my Tiger, it will be better than any time it came out of the factory. And I will defie anyone to claim it is not genuine. End of story untill someone else gets my dander up.
Cheers Steven

[meadowhog]

This is why physical descriptions of what can be done to a car for any categories to be legitimised. Or is that job being left to STOC?

Paul suggested the categories way back but whats the point without boundaries/guidlines to define them?

[garyv8tiger]

this is all nonsense really it started about reshelling swapping one shell for another .
now were dragging in new panels and restoration work .
in my eyes say you own a tiger for 45 years and change 1 panel per year you may have changed every panel once but it is still a genuine tiger .the work has simply been done to keep the car alive .not as in a reshell as the most financially viable way of doing it.

i think this debate is more about status .if what some people say is right there are very few genuine tigers in the club and on our roads